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Besmirching of LRH goes into affluence on MartyBlog.....

HelluvaHoax!

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I have always liked, independent of Scientology, the mechanisms that hoaxes use to trick victims. And Scientology is a brilliant study in the inestimably low thresholds of human gullibility that allow hoaxes to exist in the first place.

The "Indie Movement" in Scientology is a very good look at how cults evolve in their formative years, making adjustments and "testing" what cult members will buy.

Very recently, Rathbun began posting some inherently critical views of L. Ron Hubbard and his first major defection has taken place. But, by and large, the indie cult is incubating and morphing into something quite different than the CoS. That isn't to say that they don't have their own proprietary brand of cognitive dissonance-inducing methods of indoctrination.

Today, something remarkable happened when Chuck Beatty, well respected former S.O. member (and no longer a Scientologist) was allowed to post some besmirchments of Source AND REMAIN UNMOLESTED BY MARTY, MIKE & THE TRUE BELIEVING INDIES.

Neither Marty nor Mike said a word. It's a terrific post and crosses over deeply into "enemy" territory.

Such a foray into the "forbidden zone" would have been unthinkable a few weeks earlier. But, there is a new strategy afoot in the forming indie cult. Take a look. . .

Chuck Beatty | August 28, 2012 at 5:36 pm | Reply
Very important admission or set of statements by LRH.

What I lived, in my 27 years of the Sea Org (1975-2003), were repeat instances of people who claimed LRH himself did some pretty harsh ethics gradients on them personally.

I recall one woman “claim” that LRH screamed and so thoroughly ruined her reputation, when she loved LRH and wanted only to do well, that she was frankly so PTSD from it, it ruined her later Sea Org career. Janice Kennedy, she was devastated when LRH blew his stack at her, and she just crashed as a being. To LRH’s credit, in the ESTO series he says he’s made mistakes blasting people, and some of the ESTO tech is designed for the ESTO to go patch up the people who get blasted by execs, and who crash case wise from the blastings. (LRH publicly in his writings, ESTO Tapes at least, had humility to admit he’s caused this bad effect on people, and I being a literal perfectionist hoping that LRH covered ALL of his own mistakes, I took ESTO tech for patching up blasted subordinates as the tech to try patch up the people blasted and devastated by their seniors who unloaded on them.)

There’s ample stories of LRH unloading on people, and they have to be faced, these stories I take as real, namely Kima Douglas’ story about LRH blasting and “throttling” (grabbing by the collar and pressing the person against the bulkhead, and in Mike Douglas’ case, Mike was lifted slightly off the ground when LRH did this to Mike, per Kima who I believe, she had no reason to lie about her experiences with LRH, and I highly highly recommend people Google “Kima Douglas” and read her experiences up close with LRH).

LRH is a whole more compassionate person, on the whole, than Miscavige, that is such a given.

LRH’s attitude in wishing well for staff, just read the LRH ED blue volumes, and see LRH’s style.

But LRH could be devastating to people, and some people did NOT recover from what they felt were injustices overall, by how LRH blew his stack at them.

So honestly, PLEASE, if people wish to truly be Scientologists, and admit the facts on the ground, there needs to be some honest exposure to the people who loved LRH, and who felt devastated by LRH’s getting upset with them.

It’s a part of Scientology history, and I recommend some surfing for

“Kima Douglas”
“Otto Roos”

(if you are ex Sea Org, go onto the XSO chat site, “CSW” to Mick Wenlock and read Cathy Cariotaki’s stories admitting the “Kali” exercise which she as Qual Sec on the Apollo had been ordered to implement, and read ALL of Janis Grady’s history and frank answers about LRH there on the XSO chat site.)

“John Aczel” (I’ve written extensively, and on the spitting on John Aczel and Roger Barnes incident, there’s plenty of posting by people who were there, and both I and Janis Grady remember clearly the LRH phrase from a 1982 despatch answer from LRH, where both Janis and I thought for sure LRH was being figurative, but others, like Larry (Denise) Brennan believed that at that time, the people receiving that despatch thought LRH meant for his comment, “….and if you see WDC SMI, spit on him for me….”, Denise Brennan thought that that LRH comment meant literally to do what DM did do, which is spit and punch both John Aczel and Roger Barnes.

The history of how the macho violence has remained off and on, and increasingly in the last 10 years, a part of upper elite Sea Org ranks, deserves a full complete context.

The context includes LRH’s unfortunate resorting to some overly emphatic behavior (punching and kicking at Otto Roos, throttling Mike Douglas, ordering and watching as a 50 year old Sea Org father pushed a pea or peanut around on the Apollo’s wooden deck with his nose and his nose eventually bleeding and his wife and two daughters who were messengers watching and crying at this event while LRH apparently was unaware and was either chuckling or laughing which is what messengers who were standing next to him tell today).

This in an incomplete snippet of history, and someday I hope to complete the history of violence in the Sea Org, if no one else does.

LRH had a hand in it, to a limited degree, and to his credit, with at least the ESTO tech he ordered somewhat of a handling.

But this whole violence and Sea Org officers being granted no penalty for yelling, has opened the door to DM. (LRH’s despatch traffic to Bill Franks in 1979 was supportive of Bill’s tough no nonsense Sea Org officer beingness, even after Bill’s known years of pretty tough harsh treatment of some male staff which numerous ex staff have told, including even me; but Bill was just following Alex Sibersky’s lead, and Kerry Gleason followed both Alex’s and Bill’s lead, it was a whole “My Three Sons” (Alex, Bill, Kerry) who immediately preceded and surely was known to young DM (and I speculate that Norman Starkey has told hundreds of Apollo LRH stories to DM, who’s soaked up ALL of the tough guy LRH stories to DM’s mind’s justification).

DM was NOT ever really taken to task for his decades of bad overly violent temper tantrum behaviors, never countered, never put in his place by anyone.

There are two key LRH references for putting DM in his place is two-fold: 1959 tape lecture “Individuation” and the “Corrupt Activities” HCO PL of the early 1980s. I listened to “Individuation” multiple times, and especially since I speculated that it was the KEY reference to how DM’s been allowed to get away with his temper tantrums and battery all through the years.

But I think a bigger problem is LRH’s 1978-79-80 shift to TWTH was cut short by the court decisions that found MSH and the others guilty, but particularly MSH being found guilty and given the greatest sentence, LRH took it personally, and his response in the 1980s “Justice” policy is scathing and frankly bonkers.

TWTH was derailed, and in my view, the Sea Org toughness bullshit is just such a display of a crashing misunderstood of what society needs from a religion. It’s “out religious beingness” and LRH didn’t give a damn, and it’s just something that society is NOT going to buy the Scientology brand of Sea Org style “relligion.”

My analysis point for Scientology, is TWTH. DO TWTH for two decades, reform the movement from top to bottom, using TWTH, period, and DROP OSA, do a unprecedented full Amnesty, or cancel all SP declares, and don’t declare people.

DM should abdicate, let Exec Strata become a think tank, and whittle away at ALL of the policy excesses that cause the movement it’s problems.

LRH’s macho Sea Org toughness and mostly hidden smaller time violence of his own (against Roos, against Mike Douglas), LRH’s violence has to be faced.

It’s part of why we have the group Int Base violence going on, and that includes “Knowledge Reports” PL which includes the “black eye” that the out ethics staff who is sticking pins in his fellow staff, is supposed to receive if that group is in ethics. So LRH’s figurative statements urging “black eyes” is there, to whomever is zealous enough to take LRH literally, and whoever is that sociopathic or if one is pushed to do this type of violence. (Stanley Milgram experiment must be googled and read to understand why people will do violence if an authority orders them to do violence to their fellow human beings.)

LRH is the one who wrote the policies of the mid to late 1960s, with some pretty harsh “heavy ethics” concepts. LRH’s late 1960s “SP Acts” and “High Crimes” just kept getting added to, all the way up to the Key to Life penalties, and even into the 1980s. LRH’s way of labeling what the outer boundaries of what is proper behavior in Scientology, it’s LRH’s lineup of “SP Acts” and “High Crimes” which LRH never softened (other than TWTH, but TWTH got shelved, I speculate, since MSH was made a head on a pike by the US Justice Dept and LRH was driven back into super irrate pissed off at society mode).

The reasons Scientologists get a bad rep does lead to LRH, and the history of Sea Org violence precedes DM.

Chuck Beatty
ex Sea Org (1975-2003)
Pittsburgh
866-XSEAORG
 

Smurf

Gold Meritorious SP
You're incorrect... Marty did comments and he & others are not happy with him. Granted he didn't delete his comments because he knows Chuck, but much patience do you think Marty has for more comments like this?

martyrathbun09 | August 28, 2012 at 10:15 pm

I wouldn’t have approved this post as moderator. It is a multi page defense of David Miscavige. It is creepy quite frankly – almost like Nazi sympathizer material. Chuck is entitled to his views and I give him a wide berth here. But, this long diversion is worse than a diversion. It is a covert nullification of Steve Hall and Mike Rinder.
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Ronnie Bell | August 28, 2012 at 10:27 pm

Totally agreed, Marty. Get a blog, Chuck.
---------------------------------------------------

Then there's this load of self-indulgent horseshit from the former OSA Director..

mrinder | August 28, 2012 at 5:23 pm

Thanks for your kind words Wendy. A lot of “my story” has already been covered here and in the media.

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/20...ault-and-battery-by-david-miscavige/#comments
 

Krautfag

Patron Meritorious
You're incorrect... Marty did comments and he & others are not happy with him. Granted he didn't delete his comments because he knows Chuck, but much patience do you think Marty has for more comments like this?

Ah, I dunno...it's pretty much coffee ground reading atm.
My gut feeling agrees with Hoaxie that something's cooking, and I can usually rely on it. *scratches head*
On the other hand it could just as well be that Chuck took a chance after Marty's "I dunno, maybe LRH screwed admin tech up. Of course that happens to all religions, so don't be afraid, brethren"-blog entry and went lucky with moderation.

I was really tempted that day to post and demand that the original Marty is immediately released from the fangs of Barbara Schwarz and that the doppelganger refrains from further posting :biggrin:
 

Veda

Sponsor
You're incorrect... Marty did comments and he & others are not happy with him. Granted he didn't delete his comments because he knows Chuck, but much patience do you think Marty has for more comments like this?

martyrathbun09 | August 28, 2012 at 10:15 pm

I wouldn’t have approved this post as moderator. It is a multi page defense of David Miscavige. It is creepy quite frankly – almost like Nazi sympathizer material. Chuck is entitled to his views and I give him a wide berth here. But, this long diversion is worse than a diversion. It is a covert nullification of Steve Hall and Mike Rinder.
--------------------------------------------------
Ronnie Bell | August 28, 2012 at 10:27 pm

Totally agreed, Marty. Get a blog, Chuck.
---------------------------------------------------

Then there's this load of self-indulgent horseshit from the former OSA Director..

mrinder | August 28, 2012 at 5:23 pm

Thanks for your kind words Wendy. A lot of “my story” has already been covered here and in the media.

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/20...ault-and-battery-by-david-miscavige/#comments

Well, Chuck's statement was done tactfully, and he did enough back flips to qualify as an acrobat.

Every step of the way, while presenting his statement, Chuck B. made sure to kiss Hubbard's ring, and to validate him for something or other, and eventually fell back into the "literalizing of LRH" nonsense; and Chuck even takes seriously The Way to Happiness oobleck, written by Hubbard as a protective PR action to cover his own ass, after the court-ordered release of the damning Scientology "dirty tricks" documents.

In the fine print of 'TWTH', it states, that it's "not part of any religious doctrine," and even if it were, like the gooey PR cover 'What is Greatness?' that preceded it in 1966, at the establishment of the Fair-Game-Law applying Guardians Office, it's nonetheless, PR.

So, I hope Chuck B. is simply being diplomatic and that his acrobatics is motivated by his sense of diplomacy.

Why did Rathbun allow it?

Well, the pattern has been to allow critical-of-Hubbard comments in the past, and the motivation has always seemed, to me, to be that Rathbun is preparing/training his new Internet-savvy breed of Scientologists to operate on the level of Scientology Intel-PRs, which is a high level PR person who also knows about the skeletons in the closet and isn't shaken by it, but can deal with "wog" and "SP" "natter" about it tactfully, and tactically, and can also be "friendly" with "SPs," if necessary, and not "cave-in" or become "PTS," or lose "certainty."

People are going to see this stuff anyway, eventually, and here it's presented in a controlled environment, with Rathbun at hand to "supervise."

But I admire Chuck B.'s attempt at conveying information.

But gee, is it a breakthrough? Is Rathbun actually attempting to prepare his followers for more? Well, I hope so. I hope Rathbun is changing, but I know the games that are played at the level at which Rathbun operates, so I'll wait and see.

Most likely, it's part of the plan of "training" the new era of Scientologists for their place in a "wog" society in the Internet Information age.

Time will tell. :)
 

i'mglib

Patron with Honors
Note to Marty: you know you're losing the argument when you call a perfectly rational person a nazi. Yeesh.
 

Pooks

MERCHANT OF CHAOS
martyrathbun09 | August 28, 2012 at 10:15 pm

"I wouldn’t have approved this post as moderator. "

I'm confused.

Per this statement Marty's not the one that allowed Chuck's post to go through.

I thought Marty, Rinder and Mosey were the moderators. So does that mean that Mosey let this one through! LOL.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
You're incorrect... Marty did comments and he & others are not happy with him. Granted he didn't delete his comments because he knows Chuck, but much patience do you think Marty has for more comments like this?

martyrathbun09 | August 28, 2012 at 10:15 pm

I wouldn’t have approved this post as moderator. It is a multi page defense of David Miscavige. It is creepy quite frankly – almost like Nazi sympathizer material. Chuck is entitled to his views and I give him a wide berth here. But, this long diversion is worse than a diversion. It is a covert nullification of Steve Hall and Mike Rinder.
--------------------------------------------------
Ronnie Bell | August 28, 2012 at 10:27 pm

Totally agreed, Marty. Get a blog, Chuck.
---------------------------------------------------

Then there's this load of self-indulgent horseshit from the former OSA Director..

mrinder | August 28, 2012 at 5:23 pm

Thanks for your kind words Wendy. A lot of “my story” has already been covered here and in the media.

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/20...ault-and-battery-by-david-miscavige/#comments


Thanks for finding that. Marty posted it two hours after I wrote the OP and long after Chuck's post appeared. After Chuck's post, Marty made a good number of other posts, but didn't say anything about it. Maybe there was a "com lag" while Marty's reply was being moderated? LOL.

It is wonderfully revealing that truthful reports about L. Ron Hubbard are described by Marty as: "...a multi page defense of David Miscavige. It is creepy quite frankly – almost like Nazi sympathizer material."

Truth About Hubbard = Defense of Miscavige.

Truth about Hubbard = Nazi sympathizer material


With that single post, Rathbun has unwittingly blown the cover for his scam.
 

Peter Soderqvist

Patron with Honors
You can post messages on Tony Ortega’s Village Voice unmoderated, because Tony Ortega lives with the world as it is, but Mart Rathbun’s latest chastising of Chuck Beatty shows that his; “Moving On Up a Little Higher” is not sustainable in the real world, and that is something we all should tell him Straight in the face as it is without a shadow of a doubt!
 
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GoNuclear

Gold Meritorious Patron
What I would do if I was Marty:

1) Figure out and quickly at that the Cof$ is a loosing game, and if I was hanging around waiting for DM to terminally phuggup and have it all fall into my hands, there might not be all that much left by the time that happens ... besides, it would be a crapshoot that I would be able to waltz back in and take over anyways.

2) Realizing that, I would draw upon all my knowledge from all the years in the Cof$ and figure out what people want and what sells.

3) I would then announce a miraculous "tech break thru" that was simply not available in the Cof$

4) I would get some plastic surgery, start working out like a screaming banshee, get on the absolute best high end suppliments, get with a doctor who could get me the best body building drugs, legal or not, and monitor me so I wouldn't get into medical problems with them. I would drop a bunch of pounds and get a lean muscular look.

5) I would get a taylor who would customize some high end business suits and other attire to take years off my age and make me look great on stage.

6) I would have Mike and the rest of the regulars totally indoctrinated in the new break thru miracle tech

7) I would get myself a reliable dope dealer so I could pack my nose with the best shit before getting on stage. I would come off absolutely brilliant and totally enthusiastic, charismatic, and charming, all the while baffling people with bullshit ... while I took my new miracle tech version of indie Scientology in the direction of Cult Lite ... taking the show on the road, selling weekend seminars, and clipping all of the attendees for $398.50. I'd blow enough sunshine up their asses such that everybody left on an emotional high, and a high percentage of those who were single who attended would wind up getting lucky with a hookup. It would be no muss, no fuss, no Lisa McPherson cases, extremely few people wanting a refund and those who do just hand them back their $398.50, wish them well, and let them go.

If done right, there would be a high percentage signing up for the $1995.50 intermediate seminar, and it would only go up from there. As far as finding people to work the table in the back to sell the intermediate deal ... there are lots of ex redges out there who worked for less than slave wages in the Sea Org ... these people would be thrilled shitless to get a 20% to 25% commish on a sliding scale and would all be making 6 figures annually at least.

Marty, it ain't the 1950's anymore. The way that the Cof$ is run now? The Xenu story? "All About Radiation??????????????" The HubTurd reputation? STICK A FORK IN IT! Cult Lite is the way to go. Come up with your own version and run it like Life Spring.

Pete
 

Veda

Sponsor
Thanks for finding that. Marty posted it two hours after I wrote the OP and long after Chuck's post appeared. After Chuck's post, Marty made a good number of other posts, but didn't say anything about it. Maybe there was a "com lag" while Marty's reply was being moderated? LOL.

It is wonderfully revealing that truthful reports about L. Ron Hubbard are described by Marty as: "...a multi page defense of David Miscavige. It is creepy quite frankly – almost like Nazi sympathizer material."

Truth About Hubbard = Defense of Miscavige.

Truth about Hubbard = Nazi sympathizer material


With that single post, Rathbun has unwittingly blown the cover for his scam.

So Rathbun didn't allow it. It slipped in while someone else was the moderator.

Mistakes happen.

Yet Rathbun has, himself, occasionally allowed in "critical" statements, apparently as a means of educating his followers on how to deal with "entheta."

It's a little difficult to follow, since Rathbun - to the delight of some "wogs" who are impressed by his "independence" - has made some "critical" comments lately, although it does seem more and more that those comments are, essentially, emergency PR damage control actions, done to mollify certain "wogs."

I keep hoping that Rathbun will change, but I suspect whatever change occurs will be s_l_o_w.
 

tetloj

Silver Meritorious Patron
But gee, is it a breakthrough? Is Rathbun actually attempting to prepare his followers for more? Well, I hope so. I hope Rathbun is changing, but I know the games that are played at the level at which Rathbun operates, so I'll wait and see.

Most likely, it's part of the plan of "training" the new era of Scientologists for their place in a "wog" society in the Internet Information age.

Time will tell. :)

The latest outings of Marty (book etc) sure seem like he's developing an "acceptable truth" for the new information age.

Disclaimer: I've had no time in Scientology (lucky me) but have been a keen observer for about 12 months.
 

Demented LRH

Patron Meritorious
Hubbard put the anger at the bootom end of the tone scale, but he also wrote somewhere that anger is good. Perhaps, this is what Chuck and Marty think, so the post stands.
 

loose cannon

Patron with Honors
This is what I posted in reply on that Marty's comment:

Of course that you’re entitled to doing what you want on your blog, Marty, but I strongly disagree that Chuck’s post [is] a defense of David Miscavige.
Chuck only says that the root of evil in Co$ is not Miscavige, but rather Hubbard himself. It cuts across your fundamental belief though and therefore is hard to accept. You could at least be honest and refuse it as such, but no, you’ve got to practice “alter-is” and make it what you call “a defense of David Miscavige.”

Marty let it through and commented:

"Thank you Dr. Ruth."

Well he's right that I didn't introduce some of my opinions as such, but I won't pay too much attention to details.
 
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Sindy

Crusader
Well, Chuck's statement was done tactfully, and he did enough back flips to qualify as an acrobat.

Every step of the way, while presenting his statement, Chuck B. made sure to kiss Hubbard's ring, and to validate him for something or other, and eventually fell back into the "literalizing of LRH" nonsense; and Chuck even takes seriously The Way to Happiness oobleck, written by Hubbard as a protective PR action to cover his own ass, after the court-ordered release of the damning Scientology "dirty tricks" documents.

In the fine print of 'TWTH', it states, that it's "not part of any religious doctrine," and even if it were, like the gooey PR cover 'What is Greatness?' that preceded it in 1966, at the establishment of the Fair-Game-Law applying Guardians Office, it's nonetheless, PR.

So, I hope Chuck B. is simply being diplomatic and that his acrobatics is motivated by his sense of diplomacy.

Why did Rathbun allow it?

Well, the pattern has been to allow critical-of-Hubbard comments in the past, and the motivation has always seemed, to me, to be that Rathbun is preparing/training his new Internet-savvy breed of Scientologists to operate on the level of Scientology Intel-PRs, which is a high level PR person who also knows about the skeletons in the closet and isn't shaken by it, but can deal with "wog" and "SP" "natter" about it tactfully, and tactically, and can also be "friendly" with "SPs," if necessary, and not "cave-in" or become "PTS," or lose "certainty."

People are going to see this stuff anyway, eventually, and here it's presented in a controlled environment, with Rathbun at hand to "supervise."

But I admire Chuck B.'s attempt at conveying information.

But gee, is it a breakthrough? Is Rathbun actually attempting to prepare his followers for more? Well, I hope so. I hope Rathbun is changing, but I know the games that are played at the level at which Rathbun operates, so I'll wait and see.

Most likely, it's part of the plan of "training" the new era of Scientologists for their place in a "wog" society in the Internet Information age.

Time will tell. :)


I think it's been several months since I've recognized your genius. :goodposting: Sorry for being a slacker! :)

100-Percent-Genius-Shirt-300x300.jpg
 

SpecialFrog

Silver Meritorious Patron
I just looked at the responses to Chuck's comment on Marty's site.

Marty is actually spamming the comments on his own blog. He appears to have copypastad an Orwell-quoting rant as a response to three different comments.

Just like the OSA Internet Brigade do in responses to critical articles.
 

loose cannon

Patron with Honors
I just looked at the responses to Chuck's comment on Marty's site.

Marty is actually spamming the comments on his own blog. He appears to have copypastad an Orwell-quoting rant as a response to three different comments.

Just like the OSA Internet Brigade do in responses to critical articles.

Yeah, but somehow he let my second answer through and left it unanswered (yet). I think he's playing a much polarized game against Miscavige and thus he identified the attempts to put things into perspective with the Co$ manipulation.

I'd like to believe that he wasn't really aware of the difference. Otherwise he would have been manipulating and committing that act would further worsen his ability to see.
 
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Jquepublic

Silver Meritorious Patron
You're incorrect... Marty did comments and he & others are not happy with him. Granted he didn't delete his comments because he knows Chuck, but much patience do you think Marty has for more comments like this?

martyrathbun09 | August 28, 2012 at 10:15 pm

I wouldn’t have approved this post as moderator. It is a multi page defense of David Miscavige. It is creepy quite frankly – almost like Nazi sympathizer material. Chuck is entitled to his views and I give him a wide berth here. But, this long diversion is worse than a diversion. It is a covert nullification of Steve Hall and Mike Rinder.
--------------------------------------------------
Ronnie Bell | August 28, 2012 at 10:27 pm

Totally agreed, Marty. Get a blog, Chuck


Wow. You know, I feel really sorry for these guys. Miscavige really IS a monster and a perfect cult leader, his victims are never going to look past that to see that Hubbard helped create him. :no:
 

Sindy

Crusader
images


The truth is an unstoppable runaway train so Mike and Marty, et al can:

a) stand in front of the train and get clobbered

b) throw rocks at the train while it zooms past getting hit back and shredded by the fragments

c) stand in one place (as the runaway train loops back and passes them again) trying to come up with different ways to stop it that hurt less than the time before

d) hop on the train and try to divert the passengers with card tricks or attempt to kill the engineer

e) privately admit the train cannot be stopped but try to evacuate the area so no one sees or gets hit by the train

z) get on the train, help others to get on the train, and allow it to take them to its final destination: truth

There's lots of subterfuge (of self and others) between e) and z) but to try and stop the truth train is futile.
 
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