Garcia case - new developments 4/22/13; Marty declaration

[TG1]

Mimsey,

Why don't you call the lawyers for the Garcias and ask them these questions? Chances are, if there's a "next step" after this litigation, these will be the guys who know what it should / will be.

The lead lawyer's contact info (taken from one of the Garcia pleadings) is:

Theodore Babbitt
Babbitt, Johnson, Osborne & LeClainche, PA
1641 Worthington Road, Suite 100
P.O. Box 4416
West Palm Beach, FL 33402-4426 (33409)
561-684-2500
Fax 561-684-6308
Email: [email protected]

Good luck.

TG1

 

[Idle Morgue]

This is really good stuff. I think Babbitt is brilliant - hitting the cult with their own rules - not allowing SP's to have any type of communication and not allowing SP's to come into a building or get any fair treatment. L Ron Hubbard's tech is going to hit them where it hurts.

Mimsey - if Babbitt and Garcia win - which they will - because they are suing for FRAUD and this is where the cult is wrong - they have been committing fraud for too many years and they think they can get away with it because they are a "church" - well, they are wrong. The cult can revise their arbitration crap all they want. Anyone up until they do will be able to get refunds by "asking". Someone should write a book - "Asking Success"!!

The Church of Scientology has made some huge mistakes with their own promo - lying to parishoner's about where the money goes - and then declaring people SP's and fucking with their money on account. Wait until someone sues the cult for debiting accounts w/o permission for books and lectures. They don't even get it in writing - so they are fucked.

This is sooooooooo exciting!!:dancer::dancer::dancer::dancer:

Heh David Miscavige - I bet you are slamming your Scotch and slapping tonight!! You are going down mother fucker!

 

[NoName]

The church could do an end run around this - pay off the Garcia's, then simply revise all the relevant PL's & enrollment forms to state: All donations are nonrefundable. Period. Shit can the Claims Verification Board & arbritrations entirely. Of course, the result of that would be a problem re: the IRS agreement. Then what? How would you get the IRS to act? And if so, when the IRS tries to disallow the Churches Tax Free status what is to prevent the COS from suing them back into the stone age? This thing could go on forever.

That is what I don't get - how does the Garcia's suit stop the church? It's a civil suit. it has no teeth beyond extracting $ for the plaintifs. Short of congress passing legistation, they can't be stopped can they?

Mimsey

I think it's trying to accomplish two things. First this isn't just about the Garcias - he said something like 250 plaintiffs, so I think that some may eventually join, and some may be waiting for a precedent to be set. Assuming 250 plaintiffs, the cult can't just pay the Garcias to go away and set that precedent. They may try, but I don't think that Babbitt or the Garcias intend to let the cult pay to make them go away. They are going to go for a judgment far in excess of that in order to open the floodgates of litigation.

Now, assuming $100k per plaintiff (which may be a conservative estimate), let's look at the cult's assets. We've heard $1bil in the SO reserves, which I think is a high water mark, personally. But it isn't a stretch to say that this and the other lawsuits could drain the cult's cash assets.

The Diminuitive Miscreant may have more squirrelled away (sorry, couldn't resist the squirrel). But whatever DM squirreled away is DM's. Maybe. Since he's named as a plaintiff personally, it will be interesting to see if they end up reaching his personal stash. I think it is entirely possible that they will. So much for that stash.

The cult can be stopped if it is bankrupted. Then the IRS can do whatever the fuck it wants without fear of being sued.

That said, what do you think the IRS got in return for the sweeping tax exemption? I think there is party of the story that Marty isn't telling. Let me ask all of you this - how many clams do you know who have been audited by the IRS? How many non-Scn's do you know that have been audited by the IRS? Lightening seems to be striking in the same place an awful lot, if you ask me.

Of course, once the cult is bankrupt, the rest of the story may not need to be told. The IRS might just act, especially if there are multiple fraud judgments.

 

[TG1]

A quick thought ...

IF this case goes the way of my fantasy and IF the judge is as disgusted as we all are by the Church's arguments and IF the judge's disgust happily coincides with some fortunate legal arguments Garcia's lawyers have made and IF Garcia wins this litigation, is made financially whole again, and IF this case is a big effing precedent that paves the way for others who would like to have the same wins Garcia has through this litigation, then ...

Any opinions or statements or judgments rendered by the court, arbitrators, or mediators have the potential for being as thigh-slappingly inspiring as Judge Breckenridge's in Los Angeles.

I fantasize imagine reading words like: sickening, arrogant, hubris, criminal, profane, civil rights violations, punitive damages, public apology, David Miscavige's personal apology made publicly in this courtroom, sanctions, etc.

A girl can dream, can't she?

TG1

 

[Rene Descartes]

A religion can't argue that fraud is part of their religous practices?

Yeah that seems like a plausible statement.

I look forward to the day when I see the statement...

A religion can't argue that blackmail is part of their religous practices.

When someone sues for defamation due to confessional material being used to coerce.

Because I am pretty sure that the blackmail part is right there in green on white.

At which point they will have to then claim that policy is not part of their religion.

They are not going to be able to pay people enough to go away.

Rd00

 

[Lulu Belle]

That is what I don't get - how does the Garcia's suit stop the church? It's a civil suit. it has no teeth beyond extracting $ for the plaintifs.

I would say opening the door to forcing the church to actually give refunds to thousands of people are some pretty big teeth.

A highly effective way to kill something is to starve it.

 

[BlackRob]

Woohoo!

FED COURT DENIES SCIENTOLOGY REQUEST: Decision on Religious Arbitration Coming Soon?
ederal Judge James Whittemore today denied the Church of Scientology’s request to bolster its response to Luis and Rocio Garcia’s fraud lawsuit.
On Monday night, the Garcias had filed numerous damning declarations by former church members and officials who say that the church has created a situation that makes it impossible for excommunicated members to obtain refunds. (Scientology courses are extremely expensive and it’s not unusual for members to put tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of dollars on account for future services which may never be undertaken.)
The church — which had already used up its 25-page limit to respond to the lawsuit — asked for an exception to local rules to file an additional 10-page memo and a set of its own declarations that it said would prove its arbitration policies are fair.
Today, Judge Whittemore denied Scientology’s request to file more pages, which may indicate that he’s close to a decision about Scientology’s motion that the case be moved to internal church arbitration and dismissed from the federal court.
“That was a world land speed record for a decision,” says Ted Babbitt, attorney for the Garcias. “But that could be good or it could be bad,” he said with a laugh in a telephone call today.

More:
http://tonyortega.org/2013/04/25/fe...ecision-on-religious-arbitration-coming-soon/

 

[NoName]

Hey Davey, You pulled it in!!!​

 

[TG1]

I'm now in my private chapel. Praying.

TG1

 

[BlackRob]

Poor Karin....

 

[NoName]

I suppose that is one way to pay for the inevitable judgments.

Poor Karin....

 

[Idle Morgue]

Woohoo!

FED COURT DENIES SCIENTOLOGY REQUEST: Decision on Religious Arbitration Coming Soon?
ederal Judge James Whittemore today denied the Church of Scientology’s request to bolster its response to Luis and Rocio Garcia’s fraud lawsuit.
On Monday night, the Garcias had filed numerous damning declarations by former church members and officials who say that the church has created a situation that makes it impossible for excommunicated members to obtain refunds. (Scientology courses are extremely expensive and it’s not unusual for members to put tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of dollars on account for future services which may never be undertaken.)
The church — which had already used up its 25-page limit to respond to the lawsuit — asked for an exception to local rules to file an additional 10-page memo and a set of its own declarations that it said would prove its arbitration policies are fair.
Today, Judge Whittemore denied Scientology’s request to file more pages, which may indicate that he’s close to a decision about Scientology’s motion that the case be moved to internal church arbitration and dismissed from the federal court.
“That was a world land speed record for a decision,” says Ted Babbitt, attorney for the Garcias. “But that could be good or it could be bad,” he said with a laugh in a telephone call today.

More:
http://tonyortega.org/2013/04/25/fe...ecision-on-religious-arbitration-coming-soon/

This is really good news! It deserves it's own thread with David Miscavige's name on it to make sure he sees it. Ted Babbitt is confident they will win - scientology crimonology is finally catching up with them. They are learning that ole policy the fat turd wrote about - regarding crims - is now true for them. Criminal minds think alike - they are afraid of people - because they think people are like them and will really HURT them if they get caught - or something to that effect. Fuck Hubbard's verbal tech policy and fuck L Ron Hubbard all together!

No more "in the best interest of" justifications Scientology - your days are numbered!

:dancer::dancer::dancer:

 

[tikk]

My question is: if Garcia et al prove the Scio version of arbitration is patently unfair, and exists in name only as a sham, then would that open the door for anyone to get a refund of $ on account? Or, more likely, they pay off the Garcia's, and then dream up some sort of arbitration proceedure and then revise the Enrollment document to include it. And, thus loose the battle to win the war?

Further, how does winning this case impact those who would like to get their IAS $ back?

Mimsey

Back in January, the Garcias' attorney, Ted Babbitt, gave a press conference when the complaint was first filed; I don't recall there being video of it but Tony Ortega took notes, which you can read here. Tony relates a later conversation with Babbitt as follows:

Babbitt says that although he expects to end up representing “hundreds” of Scientologists who, like the Garcias, are angry about their refund requests being denied, he and his fellow attorneys will be extremely selective and may only file an additional four or five lawsuits on their behalf.

So Babbitt sees this as a test case of sorts; he wants more plaintiffs. Regardless of what Babbitt wants, the case would have huge implications because so many exes are similarly situated as the Garcias; the underlying claim has little to do with how the Garcias were particularly treated, but rather how everyone who received the same emails, was regged with the same false promises, etc. was treated. A win by the Garcias would serve as a blueprint for anyone else with money on account or gave IAS, Super Power donations, etc. As I've mentioned elsewhere I believe that the fraud claim relating to donations is a stronger claim than the auditing refunds, so the Garcias' win could impact a greater or lesser pool of potential plaintiffs, but we'll see where the judge goes with it.

 

[TG1]

Tikk,

You're a great resource to this community.

Thank you so much.

TG1