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Guardians Office Vs OSA

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
I think there is a need for those with experience in these areas to educate those who have left recently as to the true nature of GO/OSA.

The following quote from Marty is an interesting twist on the subject. As we know, many GO staff simply became OSA when the GO was disbanded and many evils then blamed on the GO. Now there seems to be a "OSA is worse" theme, and according to Marty it may be an old GO member who takes down Miscavige! :confused2:

What they don't seem to get is that the GO policy came from the same SOURCE as anything OSA has done and does now. Yes Miscavige puts his own spin on it, but it's essentially the same. (My bolding)

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2011/11/07/miscavige-hunkers-in-bunker-with-g-o/#comments

David Miscavige has made much of his role in disbanding Corporate Scientology’s infamous harassment arm called the Guardian’s Office (GO). In a court declaration of 17 February 2004 Miscavige swore: “When further investigation proved the documents to be authentic, it was made clear that we had no choice but to overthrow the GO and dismiss everyone who had violated Church policy or the law. These activities ultimately led to a complete disband of the GO.”

The Guardian’s Office purge was essential to Miscavige’s power push in the early eighties. Without it he could not have cut Scientology Founder L Ron Hubbard’s last existing communication line to the last person with sufficient altitude and respect to actually share ideas and perspectives with him, his wife and Scientology Controller (overseer of Guardian’s Office) Mary Sue Hubbard. In Miscavige’s own words: “It must be noted that Mary Sue Hubbard believed her position as Controller and as the “Founder’s wife” to be unassailable and beyond reproach by anyone but Mr. Hubbard — who was not around at the time, a fact that she was well aware of.” Hence, Miscavige assailed both positions, all justified by the alleged crimes of the GO. Crimes that Miscavige characterized as: “There were also instances in which GO staff used unscrupulous means to deal with people they perceived as enemies of the Church — means that were completely against Scientology tenets and policy, not to mention the law.”

Irony of ironies, now that Miscavige has managed to blow off his latest troika of close advisers, see Miscavige Death Throes, he is surounded in his bunker with nothing but former Guardian’s Office staff who met Miscavige’s sworn standards of “we had no choice but to…dismiss everyone who had violated church policy or the law.”

Miscavige’s last three remaining closest advisers in the bunker are former Guardian’s Office criminals.

During a March 1987 take-over of RTC in which Miscavige anointed himself as supreme ruler of Corporate Scientology under the invented title Chairman of the Board RTC (COB RTC), approximately half of existing RTC staff were purged for allegedly being “loyal” to its former head, Deputy Inspector General RTC Vicki Aznaran. One of Miscavige’s justifications for removing Aznaran and purging the organization was its retention of one Brian Andrus, an unindicted co-conspirator in the federal criminal case United States vs. Mary Sue Hubbard, et al. And yet, curiously Miscavige inexplicably retained another former Guardian’s Office hit man and quietly imported another. The two constitute three of his closest most trusted advisors in his ever shrinking bunker roster.

Laurisse Stuckenbrock
, Communicator of Chairman of the Board Religious Technology Center (COB Comm RTC). Laurisse was not even in RTC during the 87 purge and yet Miscavige and his wife Shelly bypassed channels to slip Laurisse into an important executive slot despite reports to them that Laurisse was engaged in unethical (if not illegal) Guardian’s Office Intelligence Branch activity in Australia and New Zealand .

Warren McShane, D/Inspector General External (or Legal Affairs). The former Assistant Guardian New York during the late seventies/early eighties when that office was engaged in creepy, criminal operations against perceived enemies. Over the years Miscavige has referred to Warren repeatedly as a “GO criminal” to Mike Rinder and myself. On several occasions Miscavige told me that McShane only continued to be retained, despite continuous unethical/illegal actions, because “Warren is a good liar. He is such an habitual liar he lies with ease. He is the only guy I trust in deposition as RTC’s corporate rep because of that one ability of his.”

Linda Hamel, Commanding Officer Office of Special Affairs International (CO OSA INT). Linda was deeply involved in unethical and illegal activity in the Guardian’s Office for years. She was retained and placed over OSA Int intelligence in the early eighties for two reasons: a) she had the savvy and lines to keep a number of ongoing Guardian’s Office intelligence ops alive during the transition from Guardians Office (the “disband”) to the Office of Special Affairs (the GO’s successor), b) a thorough review of Guardian’s Office documents from the 1977 raids (later made public in court) did not specifically implicate her by name so that Miscavige’s “purge” would not be later discredited. Linda remained over Intelligence for the next twenty years. Shortly after I left RTC in 2004 Linda was elevated by Miscavige to the Commanding Officer post.

With Miscavige’s universe progressively shrinking with more public disclosure of his own habitual, continuous felonious behavior and his continuing paranoid purges – the GO Criminal Troika has become Miscaviges last hope of clinging on to his dying dictatorship.

My guess is that one or more of the GO troika will deliver the final blow from which Miscavige cannot recover. And that blow will consist of a heavy, irrefutable dose of the truth to which Miscavige has proven so allergic. I know all three of them personally. While they have demonstrated a pathetic weakness of character in continuing to facilitate a sociopath in his war against people they know to be acting in the best interest of Scientology, all three at bottom are basically good. They know in their heart of hearts they can’t take me down. They also know deep inside that irrespective of the magnitude of the contra survival acts they have attempted to commit against me over the past two years, at the end of the day I am going to see that they come through all this ok.


Karen#1 | November 8, 2011 at 2:09 am |

Rafael:
In many ways the Current “Office of Special Affairs” is far worse than the Old Guardian’s Office.
1) Examine the 120 day siege at Marty and Mosey’s home, stalking them, harassing them, denying them their civil and constitutional rights right in plain sight of the entire Internet making the Church look foolish, evil and unconscionable.

The OLD GO never did camp outside a private residence for 120 days to intimidate and dramatize.

2) The Guardian’s office did not shift gears into full time attacks on Church veterans who walked out. Many left in the 1970s and early 1980s and that was that. No FREEDOM magazines were published to attack ex Church members. Anonymous phone calls to Law Enforcement to set ex Sea Org members up for crimes is Stock in trade for Miscavige’s “Office of Special Affairs.”

In the old GO days when departing members started groups outside the Church (such as Alan Walter,) almost no draconian malicious retaliation took place.

3) The Guardian’s office while using the tool of “Sec Checking” did not actually drive anyone “Type III” (mental breakdown) as Office of Special Affairs sec checking has done more than once.

I acknowledge that while the old GO’s handling of Paulette Cooiper was unconscionable, Guardian Office conduct did not include David Miscavige sadism:::
Bashing people to the ground, punching them til they crawl into fetal position, heavy blows to the head and ears (Marc Yager, Ray Mithoff, Norman Starkey, Mike Rinder and 38 others …..I am exposing these incidents one by one on other boards.)
SLEEP DEPRIVATION was not implemented by the Guardian Office.
Lock down and kidnap and held against will was never a GO specialty.
It is a Miscavige specialty !

Pete Sagi | November 9, 2011 at 12:21 am |

As bad as the GO may have been, it is impossible to out lie, out cheat, and out steal the IRS. As far as I am concerned, infiltrating the IRS is the best thing they ever did and it is too bad that the GO didn’t tar and feather the lot of them (IRS agents.)

martyrathbun09 | November 8, 2011 at 11:25 am |

Right Karen. Add to that continual violation of law by use of phones for GPS tracking, stealing phone records, bank records, running in agents provacateurs, etc, etc.

Karen B | November 8, 2011 at 1:22 pm |

This is an extremely important differentiation that needs to be duplicated by those who read online. I have heard the comments about OSA being just like the GO and with it came the derogoatory implication of LRH, blaming LRH as the brain child of OSA. If one takes a quick glance they may come to that conclusion.

But, as you have pointed out OSA in many ways is far worse than the GO ever was. Honestly, I don’t know much about the GO. I have known people who worked there, generally about the legal situation and that there were actual crimes involved but the core intention was to preserve Scientology and Scientologists.

Whereas OSA/church has quite a different intention which is to nullify and destroy all those who don’t walk in lock step with the church. It is now the church that is corrupt and committing crimes wholesale.

If one steps back and looks at the activities of the church from the top down one can see that those at the top are in the winning valence having seen the destruction of their predecessors they know their potential desmise is very real if they don’t do DMs biddings. There is no “analytical” aspect of the church anymore. Proof is OTs used for covert Ops on people who left, Squirrelbusters, insane compliance to Ideal Orgs which is glaringly driving people to financial ruin. Anyway, you get the point.

Oh, what troubling times these be,
When OTs held captive forget they’re free….

If you can see it, you can be it
If you can’t be it, you can’t see it

Sam | November 8, 2011 at 11:02 am | Reply

Well well.
The GO is alive and well and continuing to follow the evil and corrupted directions of it’s new master.
Interesting isn’t it? That a group that was formed with good intentions (to protect LRH and Scientology) became the vicious enforcement arm for Miscavige.
Take note OSA. What were your intentions when you joined the Sea Org? And who do you work for now?… and what will Miscavige do with you when you are no-longer of any use to him? Mary Sue wound up in jail and later died of cancer. Alone.

LDW | November 7, 2011 at 7:52 pm | Reply

Seems to me it’s kinda like Stalin disbanding Hitler’s organization. What a relief that was to everyone concerned.

Am I wrong in this? It seems to me that MSH and many of the folks who were working with her were handling very real, very suppressive threats against our ability to deliver the tech in any form.

And miscavige is simply attacking anyone who makes him look bad, or makes fun of him. Especially viciously attacked are folks who dare to actually repair the damage he has done to cases by applying standard tech.
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
Thanks for putting this up, FTS. :thumbsup::yes:

True to form for Marty, The Historian…a trained and experienced Scn Operative…he puts up a bunch of factual names, dates and places and then omits the facts that it was El Ron that de facto threw Mary Sue under the bus; that without Marty and others of his ilk DM would not be What and Where he is today; that Vicki Aznaran sure as F’n Hell was no Saint; and that Marty, The Honorable sold out, Big Time, the first time he blew which is more than a pathetic weakness and reveals his true character, etc, etc.

After I left the SO I was offered a big “goodies” package if I came back…more than once. I didn’t…for a lot of reasons…folks like Marty, Aznaran and DM was one of the Biggies. :angry:

Face :)
 
Last edited:

Veda

Sponsor
I think there is a need for those with experience in these areas to educate those who have left recently as to the true nature of GO/OSA.

The following quote from Marty is an interesting twist on the subject. As we know, many GO staff simply became OSA when the GO was disbanded and many evils then blamed on the GO. Now there seems to be a "OSA is worse" theme, and according to Marty it may be an old GO member who takes down Miscavige! :confused2:

What they don't seem to get is that the GO policy came from the same SOURCE as anything OSA has done and does now. Yes Miscavige puts his own spin on it, but it's essentially the same. (My bolding)

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2011/11/07/miscavige-hunkers-in-bunker-with-g-o/#comments

What is broadly known about Scientology's spying and covert "dirty tricks" activities of the 1970s is the tip of the iceberg. The number of "Ops" was staggering. Scientology "Intelligence Tech" was being applied against "SPs" with great confidence, before the fit hit the shan, with the FBI raids, in July 1977. Remarkably, it continued being applied afterwards also.

Considering Scientology's practice of destroying evidence and silencing witnesses, it's amazing that we know as much as we do. Scientology, after all, was and is a secretive cult based on (its founder's words) the "tight conspiracy" model (not unlike organized crime).


Schwimmel Puckel, in a 9 February 2011 post, had these observations:

"I quite sure that Hubbard directed this personally... But I can't prove it. But it was/is well known that even as Mary Sue and Jane Kember held those posts they did, nothing was done without Ron overlooking, approving and/or ordering it.

"I never met the man in person. I was in the Guardian's Office Europe 1979 to mid '81. Well, we had telexes clattering in from 'Ron' all the time. He was very much into anything the GO did, was my impression.. And we carefully cut the corner that said 'Ron' off of the slips before archiving. No document were to expose Ron as a leader or executive authority of anything anywhere."

Most of this video features excerpts from a '60 Minutes' program from around 1980, concerning events of the early and mid 1970s. Towards the end, at 8:10, a short segment from another '60 Minutes' program, from the mid 1990s, has been added.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uF99yYCE8wI

A recent Nancy Many interview:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wY76WHmRlYA&feature=player_embedded

From the Affidavit of Tanja Burden http://www.lisamcpherson.org/burden.htm:

"At the Fort Harrison I remained LRH's personal messenger. I observed LRH control the operation of Scientology in various 'Orgs' worldwide from the Fort Harrison. I coded and decoded messages to and directly from Hubbard. Hubbard used approximately 15 codes at this time to conceal his operations, programs, and policies, which he disseminated worldwide. I personally delivered messages concerning Operation Snow White, Operation Freak Out, and other Scientology secret and illegal operations. I also filed these in Hubbard's personal filing cabinet..."

Regarding the Tonja Burden affidavit, Marty Rathbun on his Blog, on 3 November 2010, had this to say, "This is utter crap," while at the same time attributing any actions against Paulette Cooper, and others, directed by Hubbard, as "suppressive squirrelling" done behind Hubbard's back.

Reading the responses above it seems that the prominent view these days, amongst Independent Scientologists, is that these actions were justified.
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
Thanks for putting this up, FTS. :thumbsup::yes:

True to form for Marty, The Historian…a trained and experienced Scn Operative…he puts up a bunch of factual names, dates and places and then omits the facts that it was El Ron that de facto threw Mary Sue under the bus; that without Marty and others of his ilk DM would not be What and Where he is today; that Vicki Aznaran sure as F’n Hell was no Saint; and that Marty, The Honorable sold out, Big Time, the first time he blew which is more than a pathetic weakness and reveals his true character, etc, etc.

When I left the SO I left. I was offered a big “goodies” package if I came back…more than once. I didn’t…for a lot of reasons…folks like Marty, Aznaran and DM was one of the Biggies. :angry:

Face :)

It annoys me too, revisionist history. I was at Saint Hill working as Dir Com WW in 1968 and although I wasn't in the GO then, I certainly saw the LRH packages coming in, the flap that Manson caused, the general atmosphere around Jane Kember, Mo Budlong, Gaiman and Parkhouse etc. When I was in the GO in Melbourne early 80's I typed or excerpted (as Schimmy says that included destroying signatures and putting routing slips at the top instead) many reports of covert ops that were daily activities. Even in Australia it was a large operation, as Veda says, the details of which will probably never be known fully.
 

Petey C

Silver Meritorious Patron
... Now there seems to be a "OSA is worse" theme, and according to Marty it may be an old GO member who takes down Miscavige! :confused2:

What they don't seem to get is that the GO policy came from the same SOURCE as anything OSA has done and does now. Yes Miscavige puts his own spin on it, but it's essentially the same. (My bolding)

...

Maybe OSA is worse, or maybe the GO people just knew how to cover their tracks more expertly. Who knows.

Too right about both emanating from the same source. It's the rotten fruit of the rotten tree.
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
Maybe OSA is worse, or maybe the GO people just knew how to cover their tracks more expertly. Who knows.

Too right about both emanating from the same source. It's the rotten fruit of the rotten tree.

difference is that the GO was independent - they may have been assholes (and many of them were) but they were assholes in their own little patch

OSA are just Miscavige's bitches
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
Maybe OSA is worse, or maybe the GO people just knew how to cover their tracks more expertly. Who knows.

Too right about both emanating from the same source. It's the rotten fruit of the rotten tree.
Additionally, back in the GO days nobody had to worry about the Internet! Keeping Secrets Working was a hell of a lot easier.. :coolwink:
 
Additionally, back in the GO days nobody had to worry about the Internet! Keeping Secrets Working was a hell of a lot easier.. :coolwink:

Very true. Communications technology has altered greatly in the last thirty years. It is much less easy to control open access to information than it was. On the other hand it is also easier to monitor others & circulate false information, especially when legality is not a prime consideration.


Mark A. Baker
 

Veda

Sponsor
difference is that the GO was independent - they may have been assholes (and many of them were) but they were assholes in their own little patch

OSA are just Miscavige's bitches

Independent of what? L. Ron Hubbard? Are you kidding? The GO used Hubbard's spying and dirty tricks tech - and there's an entire "tech" called "Scientology Intelligence tech" by Hubbard - and they followed his confidential policies, and plans, programs, and orders. Hubbard was the boss of the GO, and he put a big red target on his wife's back so, if things ever hit the fan, he could say, "Huh? I didn't know. I resigned in 1966. Gosh. Gee whiz," and let his wife take the rap.

And it did, and she did, even though he was still classified as an "unindicted co-conspirator."

Ultimately though, he "got away with it," just as he had planned, and the Scientologists are still covering their savior's ass.
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
Independent of what? L. Ron Hubbard? Are you kidding? The GO used Hubbard's spying and dirty tricks tech - and there's an entire "tech" called "Scientology Intelligence tech" by Hubbard - and they followed his confidential policies, and plans, programs, and orders. Hubbard was the boss of the GO, and he put a big red target on his wife's back so, if things ever hit the fan, he could say, "Huh? I didn't know. I resigned in 1966. Gosh. Gee whiz," and let his wife take the rap.

And it did, and she did, even though he was still classified as an "unindicted co-conspirator."

Ultimately though, he "got away with it," just as he had planned, and the Scientologists are still covering their savior's ass.

didn't say they were independent of Hubbard, Veda. You jumped to the wrong conclusion - they were independent of the Sea Org.
 

Veda

Sponsor
didn't say they were independent of Hubbard, Veda. You jumped to the wrong conclusion - they were independent of the Sea Org.

OK. this is getting silly. The GO wasn't part of the Sea Org. The Sea Org mostly handled internal, while the GO mostly handled external; but the Boss of the GO was the Commodore of the Sea Org.

We're discussing a deceitful operation that used and uses covers, and regards lying as something to be coached and drilled.

No wonder there's some confusion.
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
OK. this is getting silly. The GO wasn't part of the Sea Org. The Sea Org mostly handled internal, while the GO mostly handled external; but the Boss of the GO was the Commodore of the Sea Org.

We're discussing a deceitful operation that used and uses covers, and regards lying as something to be coached and drilled.

No wonder there's some confusion.

The SO wasn't even a blip on the radar when I was there though in later years there was obviously a fight over 'territory' as OSA was integrated into the machine. Mary Sue was the be all and end all to the GO, she was revered in my experience, though it was understood Hubbard was telling her what to do and in fact that was why she had such power. Yes, the GO was independent from the SO but not from sauce.
 

Veda

Sponsor
The SO wasn't even a blip on the radar when I was there though in later years there was obviously a fight over 'territory' as OSA was integrated into the machine. Mary Sue was the be all and end all to the GO, she was revered in my experience, though it was understood Hubbard was telling her what to do and in fact that was why she had such power. Yes, the GO was independent from the SO but not from sauce.

Looking back, the GO people thought they were superior to the Sea Org, and the Sea Org people thought they were superior to the GO. Both had been told by L. Ron that, "You're THE special and very important ... bla bla bla."

I even witnessed a physical confrontation - a wresting match, fought over possession of a room, falling from table to table - between a senior GO person and a senior Sea Org person.

Even though Sea Org people would probably have disagreed, the GO was always senior to the Sea Org, and, in some large Orgs, the GO had the floor above the Sea Org, which, in turn, was above "public."

The illusion of the GO being special went poof when L. Ron decided to throw his wife under the bus, and put the CMO (his "kids," the Commodore's Messengers) above the GO.

Hubbard then secretly ran his "kids," just as he had secretly run the GO.

Meanwhile, the average Bridge-walking starry-eyed Scientologist had no idea what was going on, and, apparently most still don't, including the current Independent Scientologists, who, even though they have access to a large amount of information, don't want to know.
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
Looking back, the GO people thought they were superior to the Sea Org, and the Sea Org people thought they were superior to the GO. Both had been told by L. Ron that, "You're THE special and very important ... bla bla bla."

I even witnessed a physical confrontation - a wresting match, fought over possession of a room, falling from table to table - between a senior GO person and a senior Sea Org person.

Even though Sea Org people would probably have disagreed, the GO was always senior to the Sea Org, and, in some large Orgs, the GO had the floor above the Sea Org, which, in turn, was above "public."

The illusion of the GO being special went poof when L. Ron decided to throw his wife under the bus, and put the CMO (his "kids," the Commodore's Messengers) above the GO.

Hubbard then secretly ran his "kids," just as he had secretly run the GO.

Meanwhile, the average Bridge-walking starry-eyed Scientologist had no idea what was going on, and, apparently most still don't, including the current Independent Scientologists, who, even though they have access to a large amount of information, don't want to know.

Eggxactly! :thumbsup:
 

SpecialFrog

Silver Meritorious Patron
I haven't trawled through the comments to see if Mike Rinder has said anything, but this is a sharp contrast to his statements on Tony Ortega's countdown.

There he was saying that OSA were not as bad as the GO, though he seemed to have a fairly questionable notion of what sorts of things are legal.

At least pick a revisionist theory and stick with it, guys.
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
I haven't trawled through the comments to see if Mike Rinder has said anything, but this is a sharp contrast to his statements on Tony Ortega's countdown.

There he was saying that OSA were not as bad as the GO, though he seemed to have a fairly questionable notion of what sorts of things are legal.

At least pick a revisionist theory and stick with it, guys.

M&M are truly 100% Standard Tech on Source and the Indies can clearly see this. M&M are following El Ron, The Galactic Historian’s example and format of detailed, no holds barred and highly “creative” School of Historical Narrative Style aka “History Du Jour”. :coolwink:

The motto of the School is, "History is what we need it to be, think it should be and say it is--until we change our minds.". :thumbsup:

Face :)
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
He's doing the same than LRH
The same than Miscavige

but appaently
we are not the same idiots
we were ( I mean I )
 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
GO operated on LRH policies.
OSA operates on the very same LRH policies.

Yet one camp says GO was worse and another camp says OSA was worse.

I guess I fell off the turnip truck this morning 'cause it is like it is a big deal to split hairs ( maybe turds?) to figure out whose shit stinks the worse - and they both stink to high heaven.
 

jenni with an eye

Silver Meritorious Patron
As far as I'm concerned they are both as bad as each other. Who cares what name they go under.

The simple fact that this 'religion' feels it needs to have a 'GO' or an 'OSA' should have set off alarm bells for me straight away. :surprise1:

I must have been sleeping rather deeply :sleepy: .... :omg:
 

Terril park

Sponsor
M&M are truly 100% Standard Tech on Source and the Indies can clearly see this. M&M are following El Ron, The Galactic Historian’s example and format of detailed, no holds barred and highly “creative” School of Historical Narrative Style aka “History Du Jour”. :coolwink:

The motto of the School is, "History is what we need it to be, think it should be and say it is--until we change our minds.". :thumbsup:

Face :)

What a cynic!!!

A good stance. :)

IMO Marty and for that matter Mike are looking to get people to leave CO$

Thats been my mission for more than a decade. They are now doing it better than me.

Its tricky.

You want tech, needs examination.

Such is life. :)
 
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