Inside FSO or an Advanced Organization

[TheScientist]

First post! I was in Scientology for about a year, admittedly mostly because of curiosity. I was public at the founding church in dc, and thought that the majority of the people were great (obviously pointing to what most of us say, that many/most Scientologists aren't bad people), but there were always random little weird things that would peak my BS meter (not the E meter, haha), even right from the beginning. Do OTs think they're better than the rest of the Scientologists?

I still get those automatic emails about going to Flag and how awesome it is, etc. I was wondering, for those former OTs, what is it like inside an Advanced Organization (at Flag, AOLA, etc), especially compared to a "regular" Org. How are the people, what's the environment like? What's it like at Flag? Is it really a happy place? I watched "The Bridge" recently, and it had some footage from actual Golden Era videos, and one was supposedly one shown after you go Clear, saying that you should go OT at Flag. It portrayed Flag as a really nice resort like place, with great dining and facilities. What is it REALLY like?

Thanks!

 

[GreyLensman]

First post! I was in Scientology for about a year, admittedly mostly because of curiosity. I was public at the founding church in dc, and thought that the majority of the people were great (obviously pointing to what most of us say, that many/most Scientologists aren't bad people), but there were always random little weird things that would peak my BS meter (not the E meter, haha), even right from the beginning. Do OTs think they're better than the rest of the Scientologists?

I still get those automatic emails about going to Flag and how awesome it is, etc. I was wondering, for those former OTs, what is it like inside an Advanced Organization (at Flag, AOLA, etc), especially compared to a "regular" Org. How are the people, what's the environment like? What's it like at Flag? Is it really a happy place? I watched "The Bridge" recently, and it had some footage from actual Golden Era videos, and one was supposedly one shown after you go Clear, saying that you should go OT at Flag. It portrayed Flag as a really nice resort like place, with great dining and facilities. What is it REALLY like?

Thanks!

Here's the problem - you have two curves. The goal for the person of going OT is to become more able, more self-determined, even more pan-determined, free, in better communication, wider perception. All good things. The higher you go on the Bridge, the more thoroughly you are expected to adhere to Scientology ethics, justice, admin policy, and, oh, technical bulletins (as an afterthought).

Your perceptions and abilities go up. You perceive more and more of the wrongnesses, things that tick that Bullshit meter. You are better able to communicate, you have a stake in the organization and you, being ethical, try to help and correct some of these things. For that you are made wrong, pretty consistently.

You as an OT have two paths. Path 1, you agree with the Church, compromise your own reality and shrink as a being. Kind of defeats the purpose. Path 2, you become ornery, obstinate, self- and pan-determined, and you are no longer with the Church. Eventually, that will be the outcome.

This was my experience. That you can't be ethical and part of the Church of Scientology. That you can't be true to yourself and stay.

The higher you go in organizations and on the Bridge the harsher and more arbitrary the justice factor becomes.

I found Flag to be useless as a public, not a mecca at all. It's Scientology. The organizations are designed to part people from money, at the core.

OT's are told consistently that they are better, because they are OT. That's bullshit, I think. Better in my opinion has more to do with intention, goals, ability and integrity.

 

[Night Owl]

First post! I was in Scientology for about a year, admittedly mostly because of curiosity. I was public at the founding church in dc, and thought that the majority of the people were great (obviously pointing to what most of us say, that many/most Scientologists aren't bad people), but there were always random little weird things that would peak my BS meter (not the E meter, haha), even right from the beginning. Do OTs think they're better than the rest of the Scientologists?

I still get those automatic emails about going to Flag and how awesome it is, etc. I was wondering, for those former OTs, what is it like inside an Advanced Organization (at Flag, AOLA, etc), especially compared to a "regular" Org. How are the people, what's the environment like? What's it like at Flag? Is it really a happy place? I watched "The Bridge" recently, and it had some footage from actual Golden Era videos, and one was supposedly one shown after you go Clear, saying that you should go OT at Flag. It portrayed Flag as a really nice resort like place, with great dining and facilities. What is it REALLY like?

Thanks!

Flag....gold (brass) everywhere-the banisters, and decor---gold gold gold colors everywgere---people always cleaning it... quite tacky decor.

Flag has a huge HGC and the couches were falling apart....they may have replaced them by now.

The rooms were average at best. I was once put in a room the size of a closet because they were booked and I could not sleep. the mattress was at least 20 yrs old, the bathrooms at Flag are from 1940. I now think I must have been in the room they caged Lisa McPherson in by description.

The food was decent, especially the Hibiscus....the lemon tree was getting worse and worse the longer I was there. The SO staff are practically running everywhere in and out with no smiles on their faces ...so stressed....

The only people smiling were the regs. Even the HGC staff was always stressed and looking worried and flat.

There were very little places to hide from Reg's...and once they knew you were there for service --you were a hunted animal. I would have about 10 messages daily on my door (hotel) from accomos regs wanting to meet with me (so they could sell a future package), there would be average 5 messages on the phone in the romm from the same regs looking for me.

The grounds were nice, green thumbs for sure.

The entire enevoronment there, once you experienced being hunted and harassed by reg's was completely tense. As a pc, it was so stressful being there---you were constantly being approached by every front group to brief you, to show the SO film, to give IAS money, ...it was ridiculous.

I stayed there some then never again...the only safe place was the nearest non scientology hotel.

Flag ...oh Flag...I built it up so very much, was so happy to be there the frst time....then....I realized what was going on.....the staff are miserable, the place is outdated and gaudy, and you are a hunted animal if you do service there.

In a nutshell....yu didnt miss a thing....other than exorbinant waits in the HGC for your folder to go to a dozen CS's who could not agree or get your program right!

 

[Wisened One]

Been to Flag a couple of times, never to do services tho. It was ok, been to much better hotels in my time, tho!!

And TheScientist!

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Here's the problem - you have two curves. The goal for the person of going OT is to become more able, more self-determined, even more pan-determined, free, in better communication, wider perception. All good things. The higher you go on the Bridge, the more thoroughly you are expected to adhere to Scientology ethics, justice, admin policy, and, oh, technical bulletins (as an afterthought).

Your perceptions and abilities go up. You perceive more and more of the wrongnesses, things that tick that Bullshit meter. You are better able to communicate, you have a stake in the organization and you, being ethical, try to help and correct some of these things. For that you are made wrong, pretty consistently.

You as an OT have two paths. Path 1, you agree with the Church, compromise your own reality and shrink as a being. Kind of defeats the purpose. Path 2, you become ornery, obstinate, self- and pan-determined, and you are no longer with the Church. Eventually, that will be the outcome.

This was my experience. That you can't be ethical and part of the Church of Scientology. That you can't be true to yourself and stay.

The higher you go in organizations and on the Bridge the harsher and more arbitrary the justice factor becomes.

I found Flag to be useless as a public, not a mecca at all. It's Scientology. The organizations are designed to part people from money, at the core.

OT's are told consistently that they are better, because they are OT. That's bullshit, I think. Better in my opinion has more to do with intention, goals, ability and integrity.

Very good response!

This is EXACTLY the dilemma that scientology auditing presents within the Co$. The greater the increase in personal responsibility level as a result of scientology practices then the greater the resultant conflict with Co$ mores. An increased perception of the need for reform within the church follows and ultimately culminates in the person's separation from the established church, either by choice or "declare".

As to whether ANYONE perceives themselves as "better than others", whether OT or not, that depends on the individual and the "others".


Mark A. Baker

 

[FoTi]

What's it really like?

S T R E S S F U L ! ! !:nailbiting:

 

[GreyLensman]

What's it really like?

S T R E S S F U L ! ! !:nailbiting:

I was trying to find a way to express that - the staff are STRESSED to a degree that has to be seen to be believed - this would be early nineties, and I can't imagine it ever got better.

I was half-staff half-public and had access to the exercise room in the evening. I used to go work out in the evening after post, around 9 PM or even 10. David Miscavige's brother (Ronnie?) worked out after post as well, and the guy was - controlled, held tight as a drum. But you could see the tension and the razor's edge of control there.

There wasn't a soul there honestly happy (wasn't that the other tag line - the happiest place on earth?) that I saw.

The first mission I went into caught me in part because the people there were truly ecstatic, enthused, and in many cases honestly happy. This place was just off somehow. Like a bad neighborhood, where you feel like there is something going on under the surface you aren't knowledgeable enough to pick up on in full, but you get it is wrong.

I never stayed there, but I remember looking at the price lists and planning to stay elsewhere. I rented an apartment for 275 a month - two bedroom, nice area, 2 miles from the Fort Harrison.

 

[GreyLensman]

Very good response!

This is EXACTLY the dilemma that scientology auditing presents within the Co$. The greater the increase in personal responsibility level as a result of scientology practices then the greater the resultant conflict with Co$ mores. An increased perception of the need for reform within the church follows and ultimately culminates in the person's separation from the established church, either by choice or "declare".

As to whether ANYONE perceives themselves as "better than others", whether OT or not, that depends on the individual and the "others".


Mark A. Baker

I found I could get away with being eccentric, a cowboy. I was a damn good and consistent auditor, ex-staff with contracts completed, and I contributed to the AOLA staff and the organization directly, and I held an aura of ethic presence - I actually worked quite hard on that.

But you can't do anything effective and draw too much attention before you get slapped down. Hard.

 

[Wisened One]

Hey, I HEAR ya, Grey! I was on Staff during early to mid ninetys in my org (miami) and it wa STRESSFUL as HELL, So, I can only IMAGINE what Flag musta been like!


quote=GreyLensman;190803]I was trying to find a way to express that - the staff are STRESSED to a degree that has to be seen to be believed - this would be early nineties, and I can't imagine it ever got better.

I was half-staff half-public and had access to the exercise room in the evening. I used to go work out in the evening after post, around 9 PM or even 10. David Miscavige's brother (Ronnie?) worked out after post as well, and the guy was - controlled, held tight as a drum. But you could see the tension and the razor's edge of control there.

There wasn't a soul there honestly happy (wasn't that the other tag line - the happiest place on earth?) that I saw.

The first mission I went into caught me in part because the people there were truly ecstatic, enthused, and in many cases honestly happy. This place was just off somehow. Like a bad neighborhood, where you feel like there is something going on under the surface you aren't knowledgeable enough to pick up on in full, but you get it is wrong.

I never stayed there, but I remember looking at the price lists and planning to stay elsewhere. I rented an apartment for 275 a month - two bedroom, nice area, 2 miles from the Fort Harrison.[/quote]