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Setting a good example.

Feral

Rogue male
I stand by my position. It is up to the victim to make a report. I don't think it is as bad as it is made out, however Rinder should make a police report and put his money where his mouth is.

Once again I repeat although I have some concerns, it is important not to spread generalities but stick to specifics, and there is a possibility that any person charged could apply for a mistrial on the basis that a prejudicial atmosphere has been created by the media, making a fair trial impossible.

I love this one.

You know you aught to have told those Jews in Auschwitz that. Gee I always thought they were to blame for not reporting the genocide.

And don't you just hate the generalities that the church is this or that, but I assure you if you stop refusing to read you'll find these allegations are layed out, time place form and event.

Look, I know it hurts but the CofS is in for a shit storm, it's based on their crimes of fraud and abuse, all the specifics are in and noted, signed even. This will not stop because you guys do a bit of PR here and there. The abuses have affected so many that they have banded together and currently out number those still in who are willing to lie and deceive for the "church".

Your on a hiding to nowhere x-x.
 
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Feral

Rogue male
:p

I wrote a reply to this post (from x-x) about 15 minutes ago ... but then scrubbed it ... here it is anyway FWIW.


Oy! x-x, Re 'bully' ... coming from a scientologist, that is hysterically funny!

Sorta.



Awww Feral ... any other options (it's a bit skinny!)?

:D

Well, Trouble it's a sin in this country to take yourself too seriously. :D
 
X-X Your out! Feral's OT powerz demolished you in no time flat!

Now that is serious. A superior being like you can't get a few words out? To cramming right now! You know the issues to retread X-X. The planet is at stake.
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
I stand by my position. It is up to the victim to make a report.

You are certainly entitled to have your own opinion, but in the big picture YOUR position is irrelevant. What did LRH have to say about the matter? Sure, it IS up to the victim as well as any witnesses to make a report. That's not in question. But the reports are all internal, within the CoS.
That's laid out in some very basic policies from LRH, is it not?
If you are a staff member within the CoS and are victim of a crime (or witness to a crime) there is very precise policy on how to handle the situation, on how to write the report and who to send it to. But the police or any other government agency isn't any part of that, is it? I don't seem to recall Ron saying "when you witness a crime, make sure you cc: the local police department". The violent crimes that occurred at the Int base were all handled internally because that is what is expected, and for a victim or witness to make a report to the police would probably cost him his eternity.
 

Dark Phoenix

Patron Meritorious
Well regardless, the Catholic Church has come to terms with the fact that it needs to report crimes to the police and the reality is the same applies to Scientology despite both Churches having their own ethics processes.

But are the assaults that severe? If an assault resulted in physical injury then I would say it was a police matter unless the victim was really satisfied with Scientology procedures.

People can color their experiences due to the charge on them. So we get silly stories like slave labor camps which conjure images in the media, when the majority of people involved understand that mest work raises confront. I did a time on the decks when the GO was abolished, we were sanding down desks. The work was not particularly hard, food was ok even if it was beans there were salads and I used to be a vegetarian once. I found it to be a bit of a holiday compared with having to go out and confront the wog world to get my products on post. Thus we have to be careful about the truth, and in the spirit of this threat about "setting a good example", if you oppose something you shouldn't fall into the same pattern of conduct that you perceive.

I always felt free to improvise in my post. I would do what was right not just search the green vols. It might take me some time which I don't have right now to look up a more cut and dried policy reference for you. There was one "Don't do anything illegal". I don't care if its in policy or not anyhow. I would just take it out of the beingness of my post.

5urf50.gif
 

Winston Smith

Flunked Scientology
Probably just me, but is a thread about setting a good example worth all this effort? I grew up a long time ago, even though most of my posts sound like I am still about 19. That may not be setting a good example, but being a nattering nabob of negativity isn't either. Ofcourse, as many will confirm on ESMB I rarely bother to read long posts, so I could be wrong about this thread. Long posts just bore the living hell out of me. I would rather practice Charles Ives than read them, and if you know Charles Ives, you get my point.
 

Dark Phoenix

Patron Meritorious
Probably just me, but is a thread about setting a good example worth all this effort? I grew up a long time ago, even though most of my posts sound like I am still about 19. That may not be setting a good example, but being a nattering nabob of negativity isn't either. Ofcourse, as many will confirm on ESMB I rarely bother to read long posts, so I could be wrong about this thread. Long posts just bore the living hell out of me. I would rather practice Charles Ives than read them, and if you know Charles Ives, you get my point.

2da0du0.jpg
 

x-x

Patron with Honors
Hey X-X your views on Christ are really screwed up. Paul, who you called "saint" Paul in one of your other posts. wrote to the colossians 1:3 "saints and faithful brethren in Christ who are at Colossae.." in first century AD b/c some people were saying Jesus was an angel and not God himself. Christianity was been attacked for over 2,000 years. It could have been stopped 2,000 years ago very simply by producing Jesus' body but they couldn't b/c it wasn't there.

Easter isn't really part of Christianity, it came about in 600 AD. The original Eastre was a Pagan festival held at spring. Christ said to remember his death and resurrection every time we take the Lord's supper.

The bible doesn't say there were only three wise men, it just says there were three gifts. They don't appear at the birth of Jesus either - it says they entered the 'house' not the 'cave' or 'stable' (where Christ was born) so it must have been after that.
Anyway I don't know why you bring up this up at any rate (by the by I'm sure all of this is going to fall on deaf ears... If you've been is Scn. for a long time then you probably "know the truth" that Christianity is just an implant anyway).

Please note that these comments are not Scientology but based on my University studies and other material including life experiences.

Christianity exists on many levels. Most of the New Testament is the writings of Paul and therefore it could be called Paulianity. Paul was an oppressor of the early Church until he fell of his horse and became a follower of Christ. (Acts 9:3–4) Hence my little joke about Xenophon falling off his donkey and becoming a Scientologist.

It seems that the early Christian fathers wanted to incorporate things that would help it be accepted by others.

In the time of Jesus there were cults for instance that sacrificed a bull over the top of someone in a pit so they could experience redemption from the blood. I think this got incorporated into the cult of Christianity just like other material even going back to the Egyptian Book of the Dead.

The Bible is not the work of God but men and has been added to, chopped and changed almost the whole time. The Gospel of Thomas is an interesting alternative that was edited out. http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl.html

By the way Scientology describes itself as "gnostic". The Gospel of St John is considered to be the oldest, upto 120 years after the death of Christ, and is gnostic. The earliest gospel is 70 years after the death of Christ. Thats after the destruction of Jerusalem and not by an eyewitness.

"For instance, in Matthew (2:23) the Gospels talk about Nazareth. While the area has been inhabited for thousands of years, the actual town of Nazareth didn't exist until after 70 A.D."
from http://wiki.answers.com/Q/When_was_the_first_Gospel_Written

Even then the oldest intact version is far younger by centuries, 400 ad.
This wikipedia article discusses various changes made to different versions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Mark

You cannot at any rate believe ancient documents word for word, they are often written as coming from someone else with no clarifications. Lets go earlier similar. The old Testament tells the story of Daniel which is set in Babylon, but was actually written as resistance to the rule of the Seleucids, the Syrian branch of the remnants of the empire created by Alexander the Great. The Ptolemies had earlier run Israel and were tolerant. Its not history, just a moral tale.

There are several different Gods (Jehovah Elohim) in the early part of the Bible, reflecting different traditions of tribes which were combined. This probably occurred in the reign of Josiah (2 Kings 23) Let me give you an alternative version, Josiah determines possibly with the support of the Priesthood to re shape Israel and writes the first five books of the Bible, probably from extant sources but with the twist of the messianic duty of Israel. Other things were probably added in in this time such as the exodus for which there is no historical evidence, and how could hundreds of thousands of people live for years in an environmental wasteland?

I mean how reasonable is it that there is this book just lying there in the Temple that no one ever read and was conveniently "found"? Then King Josiah starts off on a murderous rampage slaughtering all non Jewish religious leaders, torturing them horribly (Xenophon in an earlier life?) Anyhow Josiah wasn't invincible and was killed in battle a few years later on. A really good book on this is "The Bible Unearthed" by Israel Finkelstein and Neil Silberman. All three religions that came from the Book have at different times in history had violent intolerant phases. This strikes me as the basic on the chain, prior to Josiah the Jewish people were tolerant and multicultural. They were then put on a course of difference from others that has caused them grief for centuries since. One really needs to be able to interchange with others.

Some of the tools for decoding the sources of the Bible include study of the language and also criticism of the text, for instance my comment about the cameo appearance of the three wise men which everybody seems to love but which makes no substantial difference to the outcome of the plot.

Anyhow scholarship has probably moved on a bit since my University days in the '70s. I've followed it a little bit since then but there is probably more that could be said.

Having said that, yes Ron makes a comment about R6 and the crucifixion. Thats interesting and something to take on board. As far as I am concerned it is just one of many aspects to the story, and I do find there is theta in Christianity done right.
 
I'm still kind of new here so please allow me this possibly silly question.....

What does that face mean? Is that an Anon face? Or.... what is that?? :confused2:

It may be the abyss starring back at you. Or it may mean "I see your cult thinking-- You're not fooling anybody.

The Anabaptist Jacques
 

Doom

Lurking.
Please note that these comments are not Scientology but based on my University studies and other material including life experiences.

Christianity exists on many levels. Most of the New Testament is the writings of Paul and therefore it could be called Paulianity. Paul was an oppressor of the early Church until he fell of his horse and became a follower of Christ. (Acts 9:3–4) Hence my little joke about Xenophon falling off his donkey and becoming a Scientologist.

It seems that the early Christian fathers wanted to incorporate things that would help it be accepted by others.

In the time of Jesus there were cults for instance that sacrificed a bull over the top of someone in a pit so they could experience redemption from the blood. I think this got incorporated into the cult of Christianity just like other material even going back to the Egyptian Book of the Dead.

The Bible is not the work of God but men and has been added to, chopped and changed almost the whole time. The Gospel of Thomas is an interesting alternative that was edited out. http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl.html

By the way Scientology describes itself as "gnostic". The Gospel of St John is considered to be the oldest, upto 120 years after the death of Christ, and is gnostic. The earliest gospel is 70 years after the death of Christ. Thats after the destruction of Jerusalem and not by an eyewitness.

"For instance, in Matthew (2:23) the Gospels talk about Nazareth. While the area has been inhabited for thousands of years, the actual town of Nazareth didn't exist until after 70 A.D."
from http://wiki.answers.com/Q/When_was_the_first_Gospel_Written

Even then the oldest intact version is far younger by centuries, 400 ad.
This wikipedia article discusses various changes made to different versions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Mark

You cannot at any rate believe ancient documents word for word, they are often written as coming from someone else with no clarifications. Lets go earlier similar. The old Testament tells the story of Daniel which is set in Babylon, but was actually written as resistance to the rule of the Seleucids, the Syrian branch of the remnants of the empire created by Alexander the Great. The Ptolemies had earlier run Israel and were tolerant. Its not history, just a moral tale.

There are several different Gods (Jehovah Elohim) in the early part of the Bible, reflecting different traditions of tribes which were combined. This probably occurred in the reign of Josiah (2 Kings 23) Let me give you an alternative version, Josiah determines possibly with the support of the Priesthood to re shape Israel and writes the first five books of the Bible, probably from extant sources but with the twist of the messianic duty of Israel. Other things were probably added in in this time such as the exodus for which there is no historical evidence, and how could hundreds of thousands of people live for years in an environmental wasteland?

I mean how reasonable is it that there is this book just lying there in the Temple that no one ever read and was conveniently "found"? Then King Josiah starts off on a murderous rampage slaughtering all non Jewish religious leaders, torturing them horribly (Xenophon in an earlier life?) Anyhow Josiah wasn't invincible and was killed in battle a few years later on. A really good book on this is "The Bible Unearthed" by Israel Finkelstein and Neil Silberman. All three religions that came from the Book have at different times in history had violent intolerant phases. This strikes me as the basic on the chain, prior to Josiah the Jewish people were tolerant and multicultural. They were then put on a course of difference from others that has caused them grief for centuries since. One really needs to be able to interchange with others.

Some of the tools for decoding the sources of the Bible include study of the language and also criticism of the text, for instance my comment about the cameo appearance of the three wise men which everybody seems to love but which makes no substantial difference to the outcome of the plot.

Anyhow scholarship has probably moved on a bit since my University days in the '70s. I've followed it a little bit since then but there is probably more that could be said.

Having said that, yes Ron makes a comment about R6 and the crucifixion. Thats interesting and something to take on board. As far as I am concerned it is just one of many aspects to the story, and I do find there is theta in Christianity done right.
Well that just proves that Christianity is a mature religion and Scientology is neither.
 

Cherished

Silver Meritorious Patron
Please note that these comments are not Scientology but based on my University studies and other material including life experiences.

... And wiki.answers and wikipedia!


Anyhow scholarship has probably moved on a bit since my University days in the '70s. I've followed it a little bit since then but there is probably more that could be said.

Having said that, yes Ron makes a comment about R6 and the crucifixion. Thats interesting and something to take on board. As far as I am concerned it is just one of many aspects to the story, and I do find there is theta in Christianity done right.

You know, even when I was studying for a Bachelor of Theology in the 21st century, wiki.answers and wikipedia were not considered appropriate sources. I don't know what that load of tripe you posted was supposed to communicate, but a little undergraduate study supplemented by wiki.answers and wikipedia does not make you anywhere near worth listening to on Christianity. Your post was full of non sequitur rambling and lacking in any value.

Seriously, you're not doing your credibility any good. Stick to what you know something about.
 
You know, even when I was studying for a Bachelor of Theology in the 21st century, wiki.answers and wikipedia were not considered appropriate sources. I don't know what that load of tripe you posted was supposed to communicate, but a little undergraduate study supplemented by wiki.answers and wikipedia does not make you anywhere near worth listening to on Christianity. Your post was full of non sequitur rambling and lacking in any value.

Seriously, you're not doing your credibility any good. Stick to what you know something about.

Cherished is absolutely right. You get an F on your paper because: 1) using bad sources 2) poorly structured and rambling 3) you used words with loaded definitions--definitions when unpacked support your claim (like "Theta")

The Anabaptist Jacques
 

Cherished

Silver Meritorious Patron
"For instance, in Matthew (2:23) the Gospels talk about Nazareth. While the area has been inhabited for thousands of years, the actual town of Nazareth didn't exist until after 70 A.D."
from http://wiki.answers.com/Q/When_was_the_first_Gospel_Written

PS. And you didn't even read and quote your rubbish sources correctly:

Finally, whilst the large town of Nazareth did not exist until around 70AD after its rebuilding and expansion by the Romans, the village of Nazareth in Galilee was well known even in Old Testament times as it was the remnant of a very large settlement razed by the Assyrians around 720 BC.
 
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