Setting a good example.

[MrNobody]

Exactly. The most effective 'Tech' is 'Let Scientology Be Scientology (in front of witnesses)'

Zinj

Is there any way to persuade Emma to allow us to have a signature longer than 500 chars? :confused2:

However, this quote is next on my list.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

Beauty, finally some posters that see things the same way as me.I do like watching him squirm, changing the meanings of what we say to set up straw men it's his only hope of winning a debate, apart from quoting source. The tactic is so obvious to all but him.

But x-x is not having any cognitions yet.

It may have something to do with that Standard Checklist he routinely does each night just before going to sleep:

DAILY X-X CHECKLIST
(initial compliance)​

____ Put in my TR-0 on gargantuan wall photo of Ron, then smartly salute.

____ Take off faux Sea Org uniform and neatly hanger it for next day.

____ Mark graph for "Well Done Enturbulating Hours" on ESMB.

____ Read Ron's holy scripture to a major win about "greatest good" that handles those nagging, untrue reactive mind feelings that I am being tricked by CoS to carry out the canceled fair game policy.

____ Write up success story and fax to OSA senior; detail how Ron's tech shattered Ex-Scientologists whose posts suddenly became threaded with serious doubts about blowing Scientology and their Eternity. If no such success happened, manufacture them, because these days the only thing keeping the guys at OSA hanging in there are the fake wins on giving others losses.

____ Kneel down at bed and postulate Ron's expedited return before Tom Cruise and other celebs blow and join ESMB.

 

[x-x]

Clearly, X-X has had to rely on what they have "learned" about Hubbard from the various "adjusted" texts that the cult have produced. This has produced a somewhat brainwashed individual who has been tasked with the job of causing rifts and friction.

I, on the other hand, can rely on my own direct experience covering many years, of working with and closely interacting with Hubbard, his family and inner sanctum of supporters. There some other board members who can also do the same.

Hubbard was a complex person. He could be kind and then psychotic. He was a consumate liar and self aggrandiser. He had a well known history of drug abuse, drank frequently, was a womaniser, fathered at least one child outside his marriage and was a felon-at-large when he passed away.


Dart

On the contrary Dart, while I didn't know LRH in person this life, I know people who spent just as much time with him at Saint Hill and on the Ship.

Mate, I have had to deal with some issues and come to my own conclusions. I went through the same phenomena as many on ESMB during a time when I nearly got declared, and also later when my clear status was invalidated. I came back into Scientology because it makes sense and I find it stimulating.

I would like to see some changes in the Church as far as getting back to all the good things at various times along the way.

And something is only a prison if you protest it. For the Amish who live in the nineteenth century it is fine so long as that is what they want. For many Scientologists and those on staff these are challenging times and they are all gungho to raising funds for the ideal org. Personally although no one is totally good or totally bad, and DM has some good points, I would like to see a change.

However I do not want the complete destruction of the Church and I can't understand people who seem to have abandoned their friends. Criticism is a two way street, so I have made some comments about Feral and Carmel. I have also tried to do it with underlying ARC. I stand by every post I have made to ESMB, none is fake. But apart from tidying up a few misunderstandings which might see this thread run a little longer, I am basically ending off on this line. I don't know if there was any gain in my action, perhaps some lurkers learnt a thing or two. Anyhow it is water under the bridge.

As far as the tech goes, it is absolutely brilliant. I was shopping around before Scientology but after 35 years I am still getting TA off it.

As far as the man goes, as a writer it was his job to idealise. Reality of course can be something else, but a goal setter sets the standard for people to follow. If you met all the prophets in history they would have smelly armpits and a few issues.

For instance I don't accept Hubbard as law on all subjects under the sun, even though he had a fairly wide set of abilities.

And it is interesting how people see things through the filter of their own failings. An uptone thetan sees one thing, a low tone another. That's something worth pondering about for a million years or two. The people I know who had a lot to do with Hubbard and his family have not passed on entheta like you. Not with standing I am sure he had his blemishes, its part of the human condition.

And finally, I remain anonymous because my former position could be used to invalidate the Church. I am sure OSA have figured it out from the dates.

 

[x-x]

If you go back and read what I wrote, you'll see that that's not what I said.
But you already know this x-x.

Hubbard didn't put his policies of how to run scientology organizations in "The Way To Happiness" booklet in which you referred me to. Those are contained in the HCO PL's, Flag Orders, and Advices. Please direct me to the reference from Hubbard directing staff and Sea Org members to pick up the phone and call the police when they have witnessed or suspect a crime.

Well regardless, the Catholic Church has come to terms with the fact that it needs to report crimes to the police and the reality is the same applies to Scientology despite both Churches having their own ethics processes.

But are the assaults that severe? If an assault resulted in physical injury then I would say it was a police matter unless the victim was really satisfied with Scientology procedures.

People can color their experiences due to the charge on them. So we get silly stories like slave labor camps which conjure images in the media, when the majority of people involved understand that mest work raises confront. I did a time on the decks when the GO was abolished, we were sanding down desks. The work was not particularly hard, food was ok even if it was beans there were salads and I used to be a vegetarian once. I found it to be a bit of a holiday compared with having to go out and confront the wog world to get my products on post. Thus we have to be careful about the truth, and in the spirit of this threat about "setting a good example", if you oppose something you shouldn't fall into the same pattern of conduct that you perceive.

I always felt free to improvise in my post. I would do what was right not just search the green vols. It might take me some time which I don't have right now to look up a more cut and dried policy reference for you. There was one "Don't do anything illegal". I don't care if its in policy or not anyhow. I would just take it out of the beingness of my post.

 

[R6Basic]

Well you have to differentiate the add in to Christianity, most of which was done by Paul, from the original, which can be found in the Beatitudes.

There is not withstanding a theta basis to Christianity.

All that other stuff of drinking the blood of Christ, and eating his body, please, if we did that in an alternate society where people weren't so blind to it? And then there is all the make wrong around Easter etc. The fairy story of the birth of Christ with elements added just to impress various markets, such as the three wise men for the Zoroastrians who believed in a Messiah who would be foretold in the stars... If the three wise men existed, why don't we hear from them again. They just appear at the birth in one gospel and then seem content to go home. Also there were numerous other gospels which were purged by the Roman Church, particularly the Egyptian gnostic gospels, which is where most early Christians would have gone to escape the Roman invasion in 60 ad.

Then there was the complete working over of Christianity when it became the state religion of Rome. And you wonder what, if any part of it is original? Less than 10% I would say.

Some people think Christ went to India and studied Buddhism. I think there was a Jesus, but all the stuff about son of God is invention.

I have studied this at Uni and since. I could write a book on it, I know quite a lot about it.

And anyway, I don't take Ron as Gospel although I think a lot of what he says has substantial merit.

Any how, I like the beatitudes and I think they are quite OT.

Hey X-X your views on Christ are really screwed up. Paul, who you called "saint" Paul in one of your other posts. wrote to the colossians 1:3 "saints and faithful brethren in Christ who are at Colossae.." in first century AD b/c some people were saying Jesus was an angel and not God himself. Christianity was been attacked for over 2,000 years. It could have been stopped 2,000 years ago very simply by producing Jesus' body but they couldn't b/c it wasn't there.

Easter isn't really part of Christianity, it came about in 600 AD. The original Eastre was a Pagan festival held at spring. Christ said to remember his death and resurrection every time we take the Lord's supper.

The bible doesn't say there were only three wise men, it just says there were three gifts. They don't appear at the birth of Jesus either - it says they entered the 'house' not the 'cave' or 'stable' (where Christ was born) so it must have been after that.
Anyway I don't know why you bring up this up at any rate (by the by I'm sure all of this is going to fall on deaf ears... If you've been is Scn. for a long time then you probably "know the truth" that Christianity is just an implant anyway).

I apologize to the rest of the board.. I know this is an ex-SCIENTOLOGY site but I couldn't let those attacks, by someone like X-X at least, against my religion go unanswered.

 

[skollie]

<snip
Personally although no one is totally good or totally bad, and DM has some good points, I would like to see a change.
snip>

You are stark raving mad if you think that midget has any good points!

 

[thetanic]

But are the assaults that severe? If an assault resulted in physical injury then I would say it was a police matter unless the victim was really satisfied with Scientology procedures.

I'd agree that one of the shortcomings of Scn justice policies is not reporting violence to the police.

 

[Anonycat]

"Church" Child Punishment Camp and Torture at RPF

People can color their experiences due to the charge on them. So we get silly stories like slave labor camps ...

Here's a Scientology kid pretending to scrape paint with a little bit of metal. I'm sure it "colored his experience." I'm sure he has "charge on it". meaning the cult has ruined his life, and he'll need extensive therapy.

The cult ruining lives for an eternity! xx, you helped ruin this innocent child. We save lives you have ruined.

 

[I told you I was trouble]

Originally posted by x-x

snipped


The people I know who had a lot to do with Hubbard and his family have not passed on entheta like you.

See, this is where you make me cringe ... if you read Darts story properly you will see that he has written about what he observed re hubbard firsthand and there is a lot of laughter and fun and pure honesty within it ... (the good, bad and sometimes ugly).

We don't have to act or lie here in order to 'make hubbard look good' ... and telling the truth is not 'passing on entheta' ... it is just very simply, telling the truth from ones own viewpoint (in this case with very specific facts and witnesses).

Most of us did the 'lie thing and the acting thing' that one needs to do to remain a scientologist, and we have now ceased to do that.

No pretense at planet saving, no Xenu and most of all ... no BS.



See ya.

 

[Feral]

X-x wrote;

However I do not want the complete destruction of the Church and I can't understand people who seem to have abandoned their friends. Criticism is a two way street, so I have made some comments about Feral and Carmel. I have also tried to do it with underlying ARC. I stand by every post I have made to ESMB, none is fake. But apart from tidying up a few misunderstandings which might see this thread run a little longer, I am basically ending off on this line. I don't know if there was any gain in my action, perhaps some lurkers learnt a thing or two. Anyhow it is water under the bridge.

If we had abandoned our friends you wouldn't have been sent here to stop us. We brought most of our friends out with us, but you knew that, didn't you?

I'm sure you're right some lurkers did learn an awful lot about the water under the bridge, and a lot of misunderstandings were cleared up....but I'm mixing metaphors now.

 

[Ogsonofgroo]

from x-x> "And finally, I remain anonymous because my former position could be used to invalidate the Church. I am sure OSA have figured it out from the dates."

Nameless, not anonymous... trust me, anonymous doesn't want ya
Was your 'former position' missionary or kinkier , and if only one person like you was in such a position and could 'invalidate' the 'church', just imagine how invalidated the 'church' roflmao: 'church' ) is by the thousands of ex's who were also in such a pickle.
OSA and dates? You are allowed to date? XP. Really tho, you gave enough info for just about anyone to ID ya, and obviously you don't care much because... ta-da!... they don't care.
Anyway, thanks for yet another bout of laughter @ the absurdity of the product (you) of Lron's smelly, weeping, hole of elitist charlatanism.

Ooooo, think I just broke my smiley record

 

[Cherished]

Well regardless, the Catholic Church has come to terms with the fact that it needs to report crimes to the police and the reality is the same applies to Scientology despite both Churches having their own ethics processes.

But are the assaults that severe? If an assault resulted in physical injury then I would say it was a police matter unless the victim was really satisfied with Scientology procedures.

People can color their experiences due to the charge on them. So we get silly stories like slave labor camps which conjure images in the media, when the majority of people involved understand that mest work raises confront. I did a time on the decks when the GO was abolished, we were sanding down desks. The work was not particularly hard, food was ok even if it was beans there were salads and I used to be a vegetarian once. I found it to be a bit of a holiday compared with having to go out and confront the wog world to get my products on post. Thus we have to be careful about the truth, and in the spirit of this threat about "setting a good example", if you oppose something you shouldn't fall into the same pattern of conduct that you perceive.

I always felt free to improvise in my post. I would do what was right not just search the green vols. It might take me some time which I don't have right now to look up a more cut and dried policy reference for you. There was one "Don't do anything illegal". I don't care if its in policy or not anyhow. I would just take it out of the beingness of my post.

I doubt those who had to empty the Gold Base sewage pond by hand thought of it as a holiday.

x-x, I encourage you to keep reading and keep an open mind as to who is telling the truth.

 

[Zinjifar]

I doubt those who had to empty the Gold Base sewage pond by hand thought of it as a holiday.

x-x, I encourage you to keep reading and keep an open mind as to who is telling the truth.

Ask Mike Rinder They used to pull him out of the lake of shit for 'events' and dress him up in a tuxedo

He only stopped that when he'd so totally fucked up the Panorama gig and knew they were going to assign him to swallow DM's shit directly.

Zinj

 

[Happy Days]

Ask Mike Rinder They used to pull him out of the lake of shit for 'events' and dress him up in a tuxedo

He only stopped that when he'd so totally fucked up the Panorama gig and knew they were going to assign him to swallow DM's shit directly.

Zinj

Shit always floats to the top and DM is top dog... Mike pull the pin before entree...

 

[Type4_PTS]

Well regardless, the Catholic Church has come to terms with the fact that it needs to report crimes to the police and the reality is the same applies to Scientology despite both Churches having their own ethics processes.

A typical NON-Scientologist would agree with you X-X, that the CoS needs to report crimes to the police despite having it's own internal ethics processes. But for Scientologists working on staff and in the Sea Org that is NOT how they were instructed to handle crimes. There ARE policies that cover in detail the procedure one follows when one is a witness to a crime.
Calling the police is NOT part of that process. That's why dozens of incidents of violence could occur within the Sea Org with not a single police report being made, as was revealed on national TV last week on the Anderson Cooper show. DM's spokeman Tommy Davis indicated that the CoS wanted to handle this issue "internally". I think it would be instructive for the viewers on the next series of shows to be briefed on exactly HOW staff are handled internally in these kinds of incidents. Per LRH policy the "handling" depends upon the statistics of the one accused. The higher the ethics condition and stats, the less harsh the handling is, and so a staff member can commit aggravated assault against an innocent person with NO serious consequences against him, providing his production is very high, yet outside of scientology the same act could land one in jail.

 

[x-x]

DM's spokeman Tommy Davis indicated that the CoS wanted to handle this issue "internally". I think it would be instructive for the viewers on the next series of shows to be briefed on exactly HOW staff are handled internally in these kinds of incidents. Per LRH policy the "handling" depends upon the statistics of the one accused. The higher the ethics condition and stats, the less harsh the handling is, and so a staff member can commit aggravated assault against an innocent person with NO serious consequences against him, providing his production is very high, yet outside of scientology the same act could land one in jail.

I stand by my position. It is up to the victim to make a report. I don't think it is as bad as it is made out, however Rinder should make a police report and put his money where his mouth is.

Once again I repeat although I have some concerns, it is important not to spread generalities but stick to specifics, and there is a possibility that any person charged could apply for a mistrial on the basis that a prejudicial atmosphere has been created by the media, making a fair trial impossible.

 

[x-x]

X-x wrote;


If we had abandoned our friends you wouldn't have been sent here to stop us. We brought most of our friends out with us, but you knew that, didn't you?

I'm sure you're right some lurkers did learn an awful lot about the water under the bridge, and a lot of misunderstandings were cleared up....but I'm mixing metaphors now.

But I haven't been sent here. I like you Feral, probably from a distance, because it occurred to me that from time to time you're a bit of a bully.

THE VIEWS EXPRESSED BY ME ARE MINE ALONE AND I DO NOT CURRENTLY REPRESENT THE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY.

 

[Feral]

But I haven't been sent here. I like you Feral, probably from a distance, because it occurred to me that from time to time you're a bit of a bully.

THE VIEWS EXPRESSED BY ME ARE MINE ALONE AND I DO NOT CURRENTLY REPRESENT THE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY.

Your communication just seems so, so OSAesque....hang on.....

Is that a personal invalidation? Hmmm, looks like it to me. Yep......

THAT'S IT!!!!

I'm starting a poll as soon as I can work out how!

Is Feral a bully?

Is Feral somewhere between slightly below average to the best bloke this side of the black stump?

and

Is x-x a troll playing OSA type mind games?

Is x-x a genuine person/poster who is worth debating/ discussing the abuses of the CofS with?

Wanna take bets on how it will turn out? I could use the cash.

Although I laugh I recommend some back pedalling on your own behalf ASAP as AD HOM (the favourite argument style and logical fallacy of the scientologist) is a against the rules of the board.

Jus' sayin'

 

[I told you I was trouble]

I wrote a reply to this post (from x-x) about 15 minutes ago ... but then scrubbed it ... here it is anyway FWIW.


Oy! x-x, Re 'bully' ... coming from a scientologist, that is hysterically funny!

Sorta.

Posted by Feral

Is Feral somewhere between slightly below average to the best bloke this side of the black stump?

Awww Feral ... any other options (it's a bit skinny!)?

 

[degraded being]

speaking of bullies....how about the R2-45 bully,

Rex Fowler. Now that's a scientology bully!

Oops! How did Rex Fowler get onto the thread?