For the Rathbun "Believers"

[Mick Wenlock]

This is directed to those who have posted about how they think Rathbun is going to make some sort of difference to Scientology.

Dream on.

When he was in - when he had the power and authority within the CofS , he did absolutely nothing.

No wait, let me take that back - he did everything DM told him to do.

And when punches and kicks were thrown - where was Rathbun? Cringing in the corner.

When Scientologists and Sea Org Members were being abused - did he stand up and speak for the victims? Did he fight against DM? Did he stop the violence? Nope.

And now he is out and you think this cringing git is going to lead the charge?

Good luck with that.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

It's not a question of being a Rathbun believer, IMNSFHO. It's a matter of giving someone the benefit of the doubt, sometimes, and keeping an open mind.

There are plenty of Rathbun "believers" who daily write scathing commentary about them. They're "believers", too. Let there be no mistake about THAT.

 

[Mick Wenlock]

It's not a question of being a Rathbun believer, IMNSFHO. It's a matter of giving someone the benefit of the doubt, sometimes, and keeping an open mind.

There are plenty of Rathbun "believers" who daily write scathing commentary about them. They're "believers", too. Let there be no mistake about THAT.

an open mind? Benefit of the doubt? What doubt? He was part of it all. He did it. Not someone else.

What 'doubt"?

 

[Miss Penguin]

I appreciate that Marty is speaking out now and getting more to do the same. He alone may not have a huge impact, but a large group of exes speaking out about the abuses will make a difference. I know of several people who started looking on the internet after they found out about Marty being out and speaking out. They don't necessarily agree with everything he says or are following him, but he had enough of an impact on them for them to open their eyes.

I've never seen so many people speaking out, especially people that Scientologist still "in" may recognize. We will just have to see what his impact is or isn't as time goes by. For now, if he is willing to shed light on crimes committed by DM or anyone else in the C of S, including himself, I'm all for it.

Like the saying goes "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".

 

[Voltaire's Child]

an open mind? Benefit of the doubt? What doubt? He was part of it all. He did it. Not someone else.

What 'doubt"?

The benefit of the doubt as to his sincerity in what he is doing and saying now.

 

[Type4_PTS]

This is directed to those who have posted about how they think Rathbun is going to make some sort of difference to Scientology.


I don't know if I am one of the ones your post is directed at or not, but will respond to it as I have in several posts defended Rathbun on some issues.

Dream on.

When he was in - when he had the power and authority within the CofS , he did absolutely nothing.
I don't know that he had the power and authority to rein in DM's insanity. DM seems to have ruled with an iron fist and I don't see instances where anyone has been able to fix the problem.

No wait, let me take that back - he did everything DM told him to do.

And when punches and kicks were thrown - where was Rathbun? Cringing in the corner.

When Scientologists and Sea Org Members were being abused - did he stand up and speak for the victims? Did he fight against DM?

He's beginning to do so now. It's not easy for someone in his position to publicly leave the church, withstand the OSA attacks and do what he's doing.


Did he stop the violence? Nope.

And now he is out and you think this cringing git is going to lead the charge?

Good luck with that.

I feel that Rathbun is mid a process where he has taken some responsibility and I'm not going to pass judgement on him until I see how everything turns out. I'm not giving him a free pass on any harm he's caused to anyone in the past and feel he should be accountable for what's transpired in the past, but I feel that he's done some good things recently, particularly in regards to the ST Pete Times Interviews.

Larry

 

[Thrak]

I appreciate that Marty is speaking out now and getting more to do the same. He alone may not have a huge impact, but a large group of exes speaking out about the abuses will make a difference. I know of several people who started looking on the internet after they found out about Marty being out and speaking out. They don't necessarily agree with everything he says or are following him, but he had enough of an impact on them for them to open their eyes.

I've never seen so many people speaking out, especially people that Scientologist still "in" may recognize. We will just have to see what his impact is or isn't as time goes by. For now, if he is willing to shed light on crimes committed by DM or anyone else in the C of S, including himself, I'm all for it.

Like the saying goes "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".

I agree totally. The guy still believes in scn. People should just accept that. I know people who are Catholics and Jews and everything else. I'm not interested in what they believe and most of that stuff seems as crazy to me as scn. But the guy is in a great position to cause a lot of damage to dm and so more power to him.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Right.

And let me tell you something- I know for a fact that there are ESMBers who, when they were in CofS, were absolute douchebags who did screw other people over. It wasn't everyone, but there are some. They left CofS, started speaking out, but some of them are going forward and proceeding out of pasts that are less than squeaky clean. So why would some individuals get a chance to live it down and to be treated with respect afterward but some would not?

 

[Type4_PTS]

I appreciate that Marty is speaking out now and getting more to do the same. He alone may not have a huge impact, but a large group of exes speaking out about the abuses will make a difference. I know of several people who started looking on the internet after they found out about Marty being out and speaking out.
I was one of these people who really start looking after watching the Sp Times videos of Marty and the others as well.
They don't necessarily agree with everything he says or are following him, but he had enough of an impact on them for them to open their eyes.

I've never seen so many people speaking out, especially people that Scientologist still "in" may recognize. We will just have to see what his impact is or isn't as time goes by. For now, if he is willing to shed light on crimes committed by DM or anyone else in the C of S, including himself, I'm all for it.

Like the saying goes "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"
I think there is some truth in this. I'm not going to slam Marty while he is knocking DM upside the head and helping to bring attention some of the insanity with regards to the Co$

.

I agree totally. The guy still believes in scn. People should just accept that. I know people who are Catholics and Jews and everything else. I'm not interested in what they believe and most of that stuff seems as crazy to me as scn. But the guy is in a great position to cause a lot of damage to dm and so more power to him.

He IS in a great position and hope he continues to use it.

 

[Balthasar]

Regarding Rathbun, I couldn't agree more with you, Mike.
People who were in the SO before and during DM came to power (with help of servile helpers like Rathbun&Co) are much less inclined to accept them now as opinion leaders or listen to their PR just because they are now out.
I would even prefer David Miscavige to Rathbun. Dave is and always was at least sincere in what he is doing, isn't he?

 

[Mick Wenlock]

The benefit of the doubt as to his sincerity in what he is doing and saying now.

Oh OK. Tell you what Claire - you can give the benefit of the doubt to someone who for years harassed and exploited scientologists, who took part in cover ups and lies and who is afraid to even speak to the FBI.

And you can believe all you wish that the mere act of his being tossed to the curb is going to result in this leopard changing his spots.

Good luck with all that.

And what has he done so far? ooh he criticized DM!!, He bloviated about how good Marty was and is.

yeah well I dont see him doing anything other than making Miscavige laugh.

Larry Brennan is much much more of a threat to DM and his comfort zone.

 

[Alanzo]

Marty Rathbun seems to me to be doing everything he can - from his own position, and in his own way.

No one is making him The King of the Critic Movement.

He's just one guy.

It's all of us who are going to make a difference.

There's a goal we have.

See the goal?

Letting him be, and using what he is producing, is much more important than anything else.

Be pragmatic.

So STFU about Marty in the past and let's get something done now.

We'll sort the rest out later.

 

[Type4_PTS]

"................ and who is afraid to even speak to the FBI."

How do we know this?

 

[Gadfly]

Marty was a major jerk while in the Church of Scientology. That is WHO he is. He is the type person, whether finding himself in Scientology or a Muslim group, who will take it to the limit.

So, now that he is out and no longer a member of the Church, with some bones to pick with the C of S, let him continue the trend. Let him be a major jerk now that he is out - but with all of this jerkness directed AT the Church of Scientology. Now, let him take it to the limit AGAINST the Church of Scientology.

I wish him luck! Though it will be nice to see him get a bit past the "management is all bad, but LRH and Scientology are all good" mentality. But, THAT happens to many who leave, and the process DOES take time.

 

[Zinjifar]

How do we know this?

Because Marty announced as much here, although, he didn't express it as fear. Instead his position was that the FBI had been trying to frame him for years (and Scientology) but, he was too clever for them and 'didn't take the bait'.

Because, Marty's position is that there *are* no Scientology crimes. So, he has nothing to talk about to the FBI anyway, even if he wanted to, which he doesn't.

Zinj

 

[Type4_PTS]

Because Marty announced as much here, although, he didn't express it as fear.

OK, thanks Zinj, I hadn't seen his previous comment on that.

 

[Zinjifar]

http://forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=203263&postcount=1

Zinj

 

[uniquemand]

Not true, Mick. He wasn't cringing in the corner. He was doing the hitting and kicking.

 

[themessenger]

I wish him luck! Though it will be nice to see him get a bit past the "management is all bad, but LRH and Scientology are all good" mentality. But, THAT happens to many who leave, and the process DOES take time.[/QUOTE]



I agree because I know when I left the SO I still believed in the "tech" and LRH. In fact it took a couple of years to realize the enormity of the mind control I was still under.
Some people's journeys out of the Cult are longer than others. It is a process. I am delighted if I hear a scientologist say "management is bad, LRH and the Tech is good" because I know their journey out has started.

 

[Thrak]

I wish him luck! Though it will be nice to see him get a bit past the "management is all bad, but LRH and Scientology are all good" mentality. But, THAT happens to many who leave, and the process DOES take time.

I agree because I know when I left the SO I still believed in the "tech" and LRH. In fact it took a couple of years to realize the enormity of the mind control I was still under.
Some people's journeys out of the Cult are longer than others. It is a process. I am delighted if I hear a scientologist say "management is bad, LRH and the Tech is good" because I know their journey out has started.[/QUOTE]

Well said. At this point the only scios I have any disdain for are the ones who are still helping dm. Once they wake up enough to get past that then who cares what they believe and who knows where they'll go from there?