Leaving the church and wanting repayment.

[speedbrake]

Repayment for Services

I purchased intensives. The repayment was for money on account for services.

Funny thing. The services are tax deductable but materials are not. However, once the money is on account for services, they are quite forward about how the money can now be used for materials even though it has the tax deductable status...Gosh, they just are not honest people...lol
This is another reason they should not be tax exempt.

 

[pollywannacracker]

Speedbrake,

I am glad that you won back your "fixed donations". What an inspiration to us all!

I totally got your comment about tax deductions for services but not materials. It kills me too that you can lay out money for auditing and write it off, but not for the shear volumes of books, cd's, congresses, etc... that they literally wear you down to purchase.

Maybe the IRS will take a closer, longer, and harder look at all of this. My bet is if the tax exempt status is revoked less money will flow into the church and they will eventually simply cease to exist.

Let's postulate on that one shall we!

 

[Sis O' Sign]

Any data on this?

Does anyone have data on this?

Hello. I too, am in the process of getting a "repayment". I have done a little research on the "administrative fee" and, as far as I can tell, it is illegal here in Calif. unless it is posted clearly in a public place that it will be charged. And it also must indicate exactly what percent it will be. None of that sliding scale business. Granted, these requirements are for retail establishments, but to my way of thinking, that's what the church is. I have asked Mr. Berry for info regarding this, but have not yet heard back from him.

I was just told: "Know also that there would be a 2-3% admin charge and the payment could only be done by a check."

I didn't charge them an admin fee when they accepted my money, so how do I get around this one? It's Flag.

 

[MrNobody]

Does anyone have data on this?



I was just told: "Know also that there would be a 2-3% admin charge and the payment could only be done by a check."

I didn't charge them an admin fee when they accepted my money, so how do I get around this one? It's Flag.

Sorry, I can't answer your question. What's nagging me, is this 2-3% admin charge. Is this legal? I mean it shouldn't matter whether you have $10 or $10000 on your account, the administrative work would be the same. I think a fixed admin fee of let's say $10 per account would be acceptable, but this percentage thing stinks.

Just saying, I don't want to derail this thread.

 

[Sis O' Sign]

Mr, I don't think you are derailing the thread, this is exactly what I wanna find out and clarify, what the heck is that "admin charge".

I read it somewhere in a thread here that in California, this kind of admin charge only applies to retail businesses. So what about a CoS unit in Florida? Somebody knows?

 

[Panda Termint]

Yes, someone mentioned handling it before. Perhaps it was Feral or Good Twin. Send a PM to them asking about it.

 

[Sis O' Sign]

Thanks Panda, I'll do.

 

[Panda Termint]

I just sent you a PM with some info.

 

[Auditor's Toad]

In my negociations with them I flat told them that no invoice I ever signed said anything about any " admin charge" on it and that I did not feel they were entitled to add something that was not in effect when I put my money on account and therefore extremely strongly felt they should waive any such charge. They did.

They will try to run by uneforceable little twists and turns every chance they get.

This is one of those times when one has to remain firm but polite.

In a refund/repayment cycle bear in mind the people one is dealing with are over worked, under fed, short of sleep, dead broke, under immense stress and pressure - and a little validation and some acks go a very long way. And a firefight will become a very long unpleasant nightmare.

Right now I know of two people dealing with the same org at the same time for repayment of advance payments. One is going slick as snot and the other is going rougher than a cob with no end in sight.

Gee, one person is easy to deal with and pleasant and the other is an arrogant know best - no need to guess which one is going how - LOL !

 

[Sis O' Sign]

In my negociations with them I flat told them that no invoice I ever signed said anything about any " admin charge" on it and that I did not feel they were entitled to add something that was not in effect when I put my money on account and therefore extremely strongly felt they should waive any such charge.

...

In a refund/repayment cycle bear in mind the people one is dealing with are over worked, under fed, short of sleep, dead broke, under immense stress and pressure - and a little validation and some acks go a very long way. And a firefight will become a very long unpleasant nightmare.

Thanks Toady, that's what I figured I would do, if I don't get any reference or something on this admin fee.

And yes, I guess a little validation and such can help too - someone suggested I should act as a bitch and threaten with legal actions and so on - I don't think it will be necessary, I guess it's enough just to politely point to things like the IRS agreement.

 

[TG1]

Toady's probably right -- honey is more effective than vinegar.

Still, I'd just love to ask them: "Gee, a 2-3% admin charge? Then here's the interest you owe me for having held my money for X years. What? We didn't have an agreement about any interest due me on my monies you were holding for me? Well, guess what -- WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY AGREEMENT ABOUT A 2-3% ADMIN CHARGE EITHER!"

Sorry. Don't do that.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

See, they figure that anyone asking for their money back is suppressive, or, at best, PTS. So they already have fair gamed the person in their minds, in a way.

Also, the individual Org or Mission has to pay the money back with no help from uplines. So they get resentful over that.

This is not said to excuse them. It's just what I think the thought processes are.

 

[Sis O' Sign]

Hahaha, I would also love to say that when I paid the money, I bore all the transaction fees, so now?

Anyway, thanks, so this admin charge is just a BS they are trying.

 

[Jim Little]

Hi SpeedBrake,

I use to be a public cult member of the STL Org from 1989 to 2010 so be glad you woke up sooner than I did and got away from them. I hope you get ever dime back from them. I am assuming that it was Robin Hansis that got chewed out by the LA Vultures. I look at the STL Org as good little mindless minions doing the dirt work of upper management.

They were all my good friends until the day we walked away. Then those so called good friends turned their backs. None of them have a clue what a friend is, none of them cared to know what happened to us, none of them wanted to know what caused us to leave, not one. Not one of them showed me that they had their own personal integrity. Scared shitless brainless minions.

You can read our story here: http://littledoubt.wordpress.com

If you ever need anything just let us know.

 

[Sis O' Sign]

uhmm.. one more question: how much is a Flag-intensive? I know how much I have paid altogether, but I don't remember if it was 2 or 4 intensives of Flag-only Rds (no, not Ls... these Havingness Rd and such). And now I only know I have 1/3 of an intensive left on my account - so I wanna calculate the $s.

Anybody knows?

 

[Ted]

See, they figure that anyone asking for their money back is suppressive, or, at best, PTS. So they already have fair gamed the person in their minds, in a way.

Also, the individual Org or Mission has to pay the money back with no help from uplines. So they get resentful over that.

This is not said to excuse them. It's just what I think the thought processes are.

This is true. The payback comes out of the week's GI. That can mean delays on repayment/refund as there might not be any GI. If there is some GI the repay/refund comes out off the top. This can put a serious crimp in staff pay which is minimal anyway. And bills payment, and promo money...

Sometimes the local church/mission isn't trying to jerk you around. They just don't have the money. Money almost never comes from SO reserves. It comes from local income.

 

[Jim Little]

In 2010 when my step daughter was still on staff at the STL CoS they finally were forced to pay back $80K to a public that had been waiting for it for years. So week after week my step daughters pay was like $10 to $15 dollars because they were having to pay back this individual $20K per week.

In that same year they also got 3 months behind on their rent/loan payments on the building on Delmar. Boy! That tech on how to flourish and prosper really works!