Free Zone founder on Marcabians, etc.

[Veda]

You know, thats what I always assumed was on the OT levels. Thats what used to make me so excited about them. Its quite a loss to hear that the tech to do that DID exist, but he never put it into action on the Bridge. What a shame.

I always wanted to rehab abilities, that was something I thought Id get on the OT levels. You know, if in a past life Id played the guitar, been an exec, done various degrees, built the pyramids, I thought Id get all that info and knowledge back. It was definitely mentioned in various taped lectures that that was possible.

Oh well. Another part of the scam...

While "actual GPM" running seems to have produced mixed results, one result of the several years exploration of actual "GPMs" was the collection of data - of the "patterns of living."

If Hubbard had something else in mind - a "Hidden Agenda" - then, as with any "covert operation" activity, "data collection" would have been the initial step.

(This is not to say that the "actual GPM"-era in Scientology is not an intriguing one, or that the period that led into it [notably, 1958] was not equally interesting, and I still regard that as a high point for the positive aspects of the subject - *but*, even then, the publicized objective of "making OTs" may not have been the primary objective for Hubbard.)

"Actual GPM" work fizzled out, and was replaced with "Implant GPMs," which became "deadly serious" and "vital to your survival" and "confidential," and had to be told to you, in specific and sometimes bizarre detail - by Ron, through his secret materials - and this occurred concurrent with Hubbard's placing into application, in a major way, most of the ideas and practices of his 'Brainwashing manual' (which took several years). Is that a clue?

I've noticed that when Scientologists mention "GPMs," they often don't differentiate between "actual GPMs" and "Implant GPMs." Yet, an "Implant GPM" would be - per Scientology theory - only a type of engram.

Where would - for example - the "goal" of an "actual GPM" be on the "Tone Scale," and where would the "goal" of an "Implant GPM" be on the "Tone Scale" (or other scales?) One would be high and the other low, one would have the being at cause, and the other would have the being at effect.

As a side issue, since 1979, "postulates" have been emphasized in Dianetics, with getting the "postulate off" as a step in R3R procedure. Before that, "postulates" were not directly addressed in R3R, and it seemed unnecessary to do so. Also in 1979, in key Dianetics bulletins, the term "somatic" was changed to "consideration." One was no longer primarily addressing "somatics," but the much airier (think-oriented) "considerations."

Where would a "postulate" that was "made" in Dianetics be on the "Tone Scale"? (Or other scales?), it would be pretty low. Yet, where would a self-determined (non-engramic) postulate be on the same scale?

So, what occurred with "GPMs" in the 1960s, in a way, occurred with "postulates" in the 1970s, and this seems to be part of the over-all down trending of Scientology from what was - IMO - its high point in the mid/late 1950s.

The excuse was - "The 'low' needs to be handled before the 'high' is addressed," yet when is the "high" actually addressed?

Instead, Hubbard (and, subsequently, some others, such as Filbert, L.Kin, Bill Robertson, Ken Ogger) presented scenarios involving galactic political intrigue, entities (sometimes they're even numbered as to type), and Implants, and more Implants. And, while other (more positive) areas are sometimes mentioned, it's as the saying goes, "talk, but no walk."

Where are the results?

Meanwhile the subject of Scientology - for many - remains "un-decoded," while yet more *significance* is piled atop the already existing significance, or - in some cases - more PR is piled atop the already existing PR.

That's one reason why I value the efforts of some in (what is called, on ESMB), the "Independent Field." There, Hubbardian significance is minimal, and appreciation of a possible "hidden agenda" by Scientology's founder is, at least, suspected - and there is a lack of adding to that already existing significance (which can become a kind of fetish), and a refusal to participate in already existing PR, or add to it (and the honesty is appreciated.)

 

[Jacob]

I had an auditor back in the mid 80s who left off auditing for Merrill Mayo in Riverside and decided to start his own field practice out of his home in Orlando. He loved the Filbert tech and went out West to be processed by him several times with magnificent gains. He had delivered NOTs for Merrill but no longer really believed in it. His name was Jerry Dufour and he did not seem to have any composite case. He was looking forward to doing Filbert's the 'Human Loop' but decided he still was not set up for the depth of it all. It supposedly handles why one is chronically in the dramatization of being a human on this planet cycle after cycle. I don't think he was clear on how to get his own GPMs. I felt Filbert was aware of a lot of key parts of track that are in fact very highly charged amongst people arriving here on earth.

Shared epochs not mentioned by the C of S or Hubbard. Highly relevant whole track over the last 15,000 yrs in our own Galaxy. As with Ken Ogger (The Pilot) he related the recent conditions of existence and the caste systems and what hybridizations of theta lines had gone on and the religious insanity installed. All recent. I was interested in that. It indicated. You could blow tremendous charge on this stuff. It wasn't exactly GPM platen stuff. But it was definite locked up masses of intention, counter intention.
If a coup in your corner of the galaxy is overthrowing the ruling class of high level "A-1" beings and joining them implant wise with low level "F-1" purposes to degrade and overthrow... You got yourself a GPM buddy! If revolutionaries are unhappy about the fact that members of the Nobility have always had the divine right to rule because they are a higher order of being ...well shit..prove and demonstate that they have low level ideals. Make it so. Implant them. There. That'll teach em. Let the comrades run the place for a change. (I'm being cynical)

I think when listing for goals in the 1950s one jumped chains of thetans and got ill. There was no accounting for it as no ownership was checked. Just the reads. How invalidating to the being's actual basic purposes. It was just all too tricky and fraught with deception and Out Int.
When Ron talks on one tape about the 3rd battalion of fifth invaders he says they are so degraded by now. That's because when caught behind the screen they are contained electronically and programmed with goals and beings that are contrary to their own purposes. It builds a GPM. When in restimulation the one runs a can't have on the other. Its probably why David Miscavige keeps sec checking everybody in the Sea Org.

In trying to run out an incident of conflicting alien invaders I found I had the oppterm knitted solidly into my own theta! I was a hybrid. He woke up. I got shocks in my solar plexus. I had to have a copper IUD removed because I was being electrocuted. This union of 'opposing goals' in one body is a GPM. They do not have a program as to how to run an actual GPM in the C of S. It would jump right out at you as the major valence or games condition and it is all supposed to be in the mind. Yeah, right. In the mind. It's REAL!!!
I don't remember the part in the Excalibur Revisited pack where Filbert gives the outline of the platens to fill in the blanks with your own GPMs. I think it would be very worthwhile to learn how to do. I believe he uses the terms NIX _'item'____ ,and NIX un__'item'____. I have seen about 6 different approaches and they all seem a little sketchy to me... But this NIXing seems like Bill Nichol's handling GPMs by running the identities goals to create ___ "izingness" and identities that uncreate the ___"izingness". To me his is most like the old 3GAXX.

I think that it is true than man is a composite being. If you are looking for goals, for all the theta lines connected to running 'one human life' you had better be well acquainted with the nature of what you are dealing with. Using a meter to get reads in listing doesn't provide necessarily understanding of what could be the actual 'relationships' going on.

I marvelled at what could have been done with 3GA goals handling including the ARCX, problems, and oppterms. It is a big "what if". I think the Suppressed Person Rundown does get off the keyed-in oppterms from the case using these buttons in fact. But what I've noticed with knn's putting forth the data along with Cat's Squirrel on this board about Aspectics is that you can pick up the goals that keep the games condition; intention counter/intention in existence and running. You just ASK. The answer will be the uncompleted goal which will also include thereby a statement of the 'problem'. The goal and the problem are one. Lets say the goal is "to get food". So the problem would probably be "to solve hunger." In postulating the goal 'to get food'. One is postulating that there is a conditon of 'no food' (hunger.) It's all one thing. It goes so much easier. Instant problems release sometimes.. If one were to locate BTs and Clusters and pressure masses and get their raison d'etre and get off the charge on the 'not yet completed goal' and its kinetic tension, the persistence of it vanishes. All conditions of existence are games are valences are beingnesses. Doing this theta clearing you don't even stir up the R6 charge.

Much fine comment you make on subject.

I belief of actual GPM being life itself. Educate self equal important than auditing. Look to life other than self to handle. Process when ridge, problem, mind thought, get in way. But act in life to fix gpm?

Life is process. Life process done then Bardo, no body, next process. Not know what process after.

Life another?

 

[Dulloldfart]

You know, thats what I always assumed was on the OT levels. Thats what used to make me so excited about them. Its quite a loss to hear that the tech to do that DID exist, but he never put it into action on the Bridge. What a shame.

I always wanted to rehab abilties, that was something I thought Id get on the OT levels. You know, if in a past life Id played the guitar, been an exec, done various degrees, built the pyramids, I thought Id get all that info and knowledge back. It was definitely mentioned in various taped lectures that that was possible.

Oh well. Another part of the scam...

Hubbard mentioned a couple of processes for rehabbing abilities, even before the NED disability rundown. I used one of them once in the 70s (Certainty Processing) to "rehab calligraphy" and it worked to my satisfaction inside an hour. But nothing else did apart from that one try — I couldn't instantly turn on any other ability that I tried.

There are lots of other techs around apart from Hubbard's. If you're interested, try some of them on whatever ability you're trying to get (back). It would make sense to take charge off the topic as much as you can, and do various mock-up processes in the area. Just try lots of things, and maybe one or more of them will work. Maybe. If not, at least you tried.

Paul

 

[Div6]

While "actual GPM" running seems to have produced mixed results, one result of the several years exploration of actual "GPMs" was the collection of data - of the "patterns of living."

If Hubbard had something else in mind - a "Hidden Agenda" - then, as with any "covert operation" activity, "data collection" would have been the initial step.

(This is not to say that the "actual GPM"-era in Scientology is not an intriguing one, or that the period that led into it [notably, 1958] was not equally interesting, and I still regard that as a high point for the positive aspects of the subject - *but*, even then, the publicized objective of "making OTs" may not have been the primary objective for Hubbard.)

"Actual GPM" work fizzled out, and was replaced with "Implant GPMs," which became "deadly serious" and "vital to your survival" and "confidential," and had to be told to you, in specific and sometimes bizarre detail - by Ron, through his secret materials - and this occurred concurrent with Hubbard's placing into application, in a major way, most of the ideas and practices of his 'Brainwashing manual' (which took several years). Is that a clue?

I've noticed that when Scientologists mention "GPMs," they often don't differentiate between "actual GPMs" and "Implant GPMs." Yet, an "Implant GPM" would be - per Scientology theory - only a type of engram.

Where would - for example - the "goal" of an "actual GPM" be on the "Tone Scale," and where would the "goal" of an "Implant GPM" be on the "Tone Scale" (or other scales?) One would be high and the other low, one would have the being at cause, and the other would have the being at effect.

As a side issue, since 1979, "postulates" have been emphasized in Dianetics, with getting the "postulate off" as a step in R3R procedure. Before that, "postulates" were not directly addressed in R3R, and it seemed unnecessary to do so. Also in 1979, in key Dianetics bulletins, the term "somatic" was changed to "consideration." One was no longer primarily addressing "somatics," but the much airier (think-oriented) "considerations."

Where would a "postulate" that was "made" in Dianetics be on the "Tone Scale"? (Or other scales?), it would be pretty low. Yet, where would a self-determined (non-engramic) postulate be on the same scale?

So, what occurred with "GPMs" in the 1960s, in a way, occurred with "postulates" in the 1970s, and this seems to be part of the over-all down trending of Scientology from what was - IMO - its high point in the mid/late 1950s.

The excuse was - "The 'low' needs to be handled before the 'high' is addressed," yet when is the "high" actually addressed?

Instead, Hubbard (and, subsequently, some others, such as Filbert, L.Kin, Bill Robertson, Ken Ogger) presented scenarios involving galactic political intrigue, entities (sometimes they're even numbered as to type), and Implants, and more Implants. And, while other (more positive) areas are sometimes mentioned, it's as the saying goes, "talk, but no walk."

Where are the results?

Meanwhile the subject of Scientology - for many - remains "un-decoded," while yet more *significance* is piled atop the already existing significance, or - in some cases - more PR is piled atop the already existing PR.

That's one reason why I value the efforts of some in (what is called, on ESMB), the "Independent Field." There, Hubbardian significance is minimal, and appreciation of a possible "hidden agenda" by Scientology's founder is, at least, suspected - and there is a lack of adding to that already existing significance (which can become a kind of fetish), and a refusal to participate in already existing PR, or add to it (and the honesty is appreciated.)

These are interesting observations. It is not possible to make blanket generality statements in addressing some of the questions raised, but I will throw out some things I have observed to further the discusssion.

Both Implant and Actual GPM goals exist at or below body death. A "Prime Postulate" (this lifetime Tone-40) can and does override them.

The "charge" (voltage) in the Implant GPMS is what is so overwhelming. It comes off bits and pieces at a time. In doing the CC materials 10 times through, it was on the 4th time through that huge amounts of charge blew off, revealing even more cumulative clusters and BT's (fragments).

Interspersed with that have been instances of actual GPM's moving in and being revealed. When running these, I have had instances where other people with similar GPM goals became attracted to my area, with some great hilarity ensuing.

Ultimately, if one applies the data re: responsibility, then one is responsible for being implanted as well as doing the implanting. This has had some interesting ramifications behaviorally, spanning interests from the arts to food, and addictions thereof. Justifying behavior by having the consideration that one can always "forget it" etc.

None of this is discussable within the strict confines of the CoS. They are run on the basis of being an Implanting Organization. "Scientology is the last ser fac you will ever have." is how LRH put it at one time.

 

[Veda]

To clarify, I was asking about a self-determined (actual) Goal, before it becomes a GPM, and comparing that to an implanted Goal.

 

[Div6]

To clarify, I was asking about a self-determined (actual) Goal, before it becomes a GPM, and comparing that to an implanted Goal.

Self-determined goals are usually life time dependant, and cease to exist upon attainment of the goal. These would be postulates and considerations. Any attendant mass would dissapate upon completion of the goal.

A Goals-Problems MASS is actual mass in the mind. Thus there are associated somatics, sensations, heat, etc when contacted and run.

How does a Goal become a GPM? When it gets engrams attached to it is one scenario.

 

[Veda]

When I wrote it, it crossed my mind that "self-determined" might be regarded as denoting the "1st dynamic" but, off hand, there's no concise way of saying it.

Perhaps this illustration will convey the idea. See fifth sphere down, zig zagging - the red one:

http://www.cosmiclight.com/oflightandlife/images/treelife.jpg

The sphere at the bottom would probably coincide with the idea of the "1st (this lifetime) dynamic."

 

[knn]

To clarify, I was asking about a self-determined (actual) Goal, before it becomes a GPM, and comparing that to an implanted Goal.

Every goal creates immediately mass because a goal includes that 1) it's not there yet 2) that there are barriers. Later it adds up mass facing barriers AND also mass from not wanting the goal or its derived (decayed) sub goals.

 

[Hatshepsut]

Much fine comment you make on subject.

I belief of actual GPM being life itself. Educate self equal important than auditing. Look to life other than self to handle. Process when ridge, problem, mind thought, get in way. But act in life to fix gpm?

Life is process. Life process done then Bardo, no body, next process. Not know what process after.

Life another?

YES! That reminds me life IS a process. I used to hear that a lot. I just can't remember where. And what does come after the Bardo. Maybe, what is the purpose of the Bardo?

 

[degraded being]

I have no idea what "bardo" means but I would still take a guess at answering the earnest question:

"What is the purpose of the Bardo?"

Assuming it is beyond all other purposes,
its purpose is to have a purpose.

 

[Hatshepsut]

degraded being wrote:
I have no idea what "bardo" means but I would still take a guess at answering the earnest question

"What is the purpose of the Bardo?"

Assuming it is beyond all other purposes,
its purpose is to have a purpose.

The Bardo is I believe a Tibetan Buddhist term for the in-between state where you go through a process of soul conflicts before you return. I think it is 40 days.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bardo_Thodol

Some of these ideas of a purgatory or an Egyptian underworld you must pass safely through after death and the Bardo just are a bit much. I mean the poor fella has just suffered a traumatic loss of his body..now he has to fight for the life and continuation of his very soul. Jeeez. With that much stress I wouldn't be surprised if a few just opted out of their right 'To Be" and had it done with! So my guess is that the purpose of such a thing is to torment you some more. Though its supposed to be a purification by misery.

Any between lives area that is fraught with demons that you have to answer to and pass tests and maybe get yourslef devoured is an obvious control mechanism. The idea is you as a being are still contained in some sort of shell or astral body. Only masters of slaves have an interest in getting you to swallow that garbage or restimulate its hallucination. BEWARE!

 

[Veda]

Bardo Thodol videos, narrated by Leonard Cohen, plus other links. (Some videos need to be top clicked):

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=1192

 

[degraded being]

The Bardo is I believe a Tibetan Buddhist term for the in-between state where you go through a process of soul conflicts before you return. I think it is 40 days.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bardo_Thodol

Some of these ideas of a purgatory or an Egyptian underworld you must pass safely through after death and the Bardo just are a bit much. I mean the poor fella has just suffered a traumatic loss of his body..now he has to fight for the life and continuation of his very soul. Jeeez. With that much stress I wouldn't be surprised if a few just opted out of their right 'To Be" and had it done with! So my guess is that the purpose of such a thing is to torment you some more. Though its supposed to be a purification by misery.

Any between lives area that is fraught with demons that you have to answer to and pass tests and maybe get yourslef devoured is an obvious control mechanism. The idea is you as a being are still contained in some sort of shell or astral body. Only masters of slaves have an interest in getting you to swallow that garbage or restimulate its hallucination. BEWARE!

yeah looks pretty controlling doesn't it?

 

[Jacob]

Life is process. Bardo is process. Question to be why of process?

Bardo also called between lives area by Hubbard, maybe heaven hell by christian?

My believe is like testing or school but not of body. Life is also same with body.

What is high purpose?

My believe is feel good, learn, fill time. No else.

Nihilist? No. Wealthy experience of much joy.

 

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

My view on the data in OT3 is that running it produces a lot of case gain for a number of people. It seems that some fairly hefty incident occurred at a time which reads on the e-meter as 75 million years ago.
The platens act to direct a person to the incident. The actual content does seem to vary. I would say that the outlines bear some semblance to reality but if the PC comes up with something different then that is what should be run. I don't really think it matters whether the perpetrator of the incident was Xemu or Popeye.
The dates of the OT2 dichotomies come up with all sorts of figures for me. It does seem that the various GPMs in OT2 are quite different in design, content and intent. Some also seem more charged for some people than others and which ones are more charged varies. I'm inclined to think that they were implanted at different times originally and either re-implanted or restimulated in Inc 2. LRH revised dates and content on implants quite a few times. If LRH were to come back and revise the date of Inc 2 saying it was actually done by intelligent fish in ancient Egypt 5600 years ago then I think most Scientologists would find it at that date with that content.
Whatever actually happened seems to be fairly heavily obscured by false data and very subject to suggestion. I'd therefore see the best approach as the one which directs the PC sufficiently to the area of charge without feeding them a lot of unnecessary and possibly untrue cosmology.
I've tended to stop believing in beliefs about what "really" happened and just run what produces gains for the PC.
After running OT8 I realized that I'd believed a lot which turned out not to be true but had nevertheless produced case gains. There might well be several layers of BS, false incidents, false dates etc. yet to go through. The e-meter seems to read on things that are charged even if delusional. I'm working on the premise that running the charged delusions should eventually uncover truth. Believing the delusions is a sad mistake.
Hubbard had his own areas of charge. I think that had he more extensively audited those areas of charge he would possibly have realized that all psychiatrists are not evil and that there might even be a decent FBI agent on the planet. I think our task is one of separating out Scientology from individual cases and applying that part of it which is generally workable.

I guess there is nothing wrong with running fantasies as long as it produces case gain, I usually feel pretty good after seeing a movie I can relate to, too, regardless if it's factual or not.

 

[Mark A. Baker]

The Bardo is I believe a Tibetan Buddhist term for the in-between state where you go through a process of soul conflicts before you return. I think it is 40 days.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bardo_Thodol

Some of these ideas of a purgatory or an Egyptian underworld you must pass safely through after death and the Bardo just are a bit much. I mean the poor fella has just suffered a traumatic loss of his body..now he has to fight for the life and continuation of his very soul. Jeeez. With that much stress I wouldn't be surprised if a few just opted out of their right 'To Be" and had it done with! So my guess is that the purpose of such a thing is to torment you some more. Though its supposed to be a purification by misery.

Any between lives area that is fraught with demons that you have to answer to and pass tests and maybe get yourslef devoured is an obvious control mechanism. The idea is you as a being are still contained in some sort of shell or astral body. Only masters of slaves have an interest in getting you to swallow that garbage or restimulate its hallucination. BEWARE!

Actually H, what a being experiences "in the Bardo" is taken to be a direct product of their own "mind". The purpose accorded to Buddhist practice is to prepare the individual to recognize this principle and to be able to free himself from recreating such limitations.

Roughly put, but approximately correct.

Mark A. Baker

 

[Hatshepsut]

Thanks Mark.

 

[Hatshepsut]

Thanks also for the video link Veda. It did verify what Mark said about the demons being products of one's 'own' mind. when I watched the video by Leonard Cohen. I LOVE Leonard. "I'm Your Man" documentary produced in Montreal, Canada about him showed him at his monastery in Califorinia visiting with his Buddhist master. Leonard was too much of a lover of relationships with life to be that much of an ascetic so left to go back to Canada.

I always remember the scene from Conan the Barbarian where Conan was dying and his girlfriend and the Wizard went through fighting off all those demons to keep him away from 'other' side and back into the plane of the living. They succeeded.