Scientology is creating cold and heartless people

[Markus]

Heartless Scientologists leave us alone....

We don't need the stupid abusive and dilettant Tech of your founder L Ron Hubbard to be happy on this planet. So leave us human beings alone you robot aliens.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnDy8CHV508

Love

Markus

 

[angel]

No Sympathy

After a few years in I developed a no sympathy stance, attitude, tone. Its difficult to describe because I was uptone constantly creating the future for the most part. It was staff and pull your self up and dust yourself off, don't be a victim that made me so strict.

Just being honest, anyone else have the same symptoms? My co-workers call me "scary" but they need me for the answers to all their problems :confused2:

Jen

 

[Cinnamon_Girl]

I agree

I used to get laughed at when I'd show emotions. I hated suppressing my emotions. I surely don't do that any more.

 

[uniquemand]

I never suppressed my emotions. I simply didn't let them rule my behavior. Just because your compass points North doesn't mean you have to go there.

 

[uniquemand]

After a few years in I developed a no sympathy stance, attitude, tone. Its difficult to describe because I was uptone constantly creating the future for the most part. It was staff and pull your self up and dust yourself off, don't be a victim that made me so strict.

Just being honest, anyone else have the same symptoms? My co-workers call me "scary" but they need me for the answers to all their problems :confused2:

Jen

I feel sympathy for people who are down and out. I don't think that the best way to be of help is to flow over with sympathy, though. Depends on the situation. Sometimes, all someone wants is someone to talk to. I don't agree with LRH's intentions to fleece people based on exploiting their wish to address something that is plaguing them, but I do agree that sometimes a person just needs to be heard, to fully express themselves. Many times people have told me things because they felt comfortable talking to me, and because I didn't interrupt them, or start crying in sympathy, etc. Just having someone who will listen, ask questions to get you to completely tell your story, is the best medicine in the world.

It always struck me as unnatural and bizarre that some Scientologists turned off their emotions, or their sympathy. I don't remember Hubbard ever saying to do that, but there certainly was an inference that could be drawn that expressing emotions was bad form. My understanding of Clear was not a robot who didn't have emotions, and, in fact, was quite different. I thought they simply had emotions that weren't corrupted or altered by compulsions and unwitting association with past incidents.

 

[Markus]

Wonderful post La La Lou Lou

I like the Spockian word. Spock had a high moral concept, he would do the right thing even if it meant killing his family in the process. I think Sylar from Heroes is perhaps more accrate a Sea Org role model, though. Sylarian.

As a sea org member you do the cold thing, your spouse wants to leave, so you drag him or her to the MAA. Your children dont want to be sea org members so you have them sec checked till they turn into Spocklets. or Sylarettes.

I have worked for years now to kill my inner 'Sylar', I do have emotions, I can cry, I can empathise.

But theres another sea org beingness, the cold anger, the tight white lipped uncontrollable anger, Now I dont get angry with people, I used to feel compelled to give people SRA's if they slowed me down, got in my way. Out FO 38! Getting angry used to be so easy, and was so emabarassing.

Antagonism is high toned, so its acceptable, but crying is missemotion. Even if youre crying because youre so happy your baby survived birth! I suppose if your baby survies birth you should slap the midwife, and call her a stupid out ethics wog.

I just love this post.

Thank you La La Lou Lou

Best wishes

Markus

 

[Markus]

Another song full of life....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGlvZ3uYRB0&feature=related

Love

Markus

 

[Bee Sting]

Mouthful

In my opinion Scientology is creating very cold and heartless people. In their PR videos they claim to be experts of live.
I think it is exactly the opposite - Scientologists are so very far away from the real life full of joy and love.
How could we call this? I can't find a word for this "condition" May you please help me to create a word for it.
As a contrapoint to the false PR videos of the Church of Scientology let us find some true videos full of real life and post them here on this thread.
I will start with this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMZ8C-h1xuQ

and this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlBnqttOkFU


Oh man i love it!

Markus

Hi Markus, Long time no see..

I read your thread yesterday (every response) and I got tears in my eyes.. there is so much to life to enjoy. How can we truly live our lives if we cannot feel the world around us? There is so much joy and yes, there is sorrow too. I believe, we all have a cross to bear. I think I bear mine... but those are things that I love in life and I love being a wog (good and bad.)

I can feel any emotion I want to! I can laugh! I can cry and I cherish everyone of those emotions. I embrace every person I meet with all my heart, even if they are considered low tone.

Actually, the low tones and my own ones too, makes me a better person because it teaches me to appreciate what I have and the things I've gone through.

"Emotions are wonderful things without them how do we love? Without love how do we care? Without care how do we live?" :confused2: I don't know!

I have a condition for you, it's a mouthful and it may require some time to really, really get it but I thought of it when reading your thread...

and listening to all those lovely songs... I love them! I truly love them and I so appreciate life after the Sea Org. Every day I live now is a pleasure! That is how bad the SO was for me.

Ok, so I may be considered an emotional wreck but I am not. I am as stable as anyone else but maybe my difference is that I accept life for what it is well, maybe....

So, here is my word/definition and answer to your question:


PTRS - Condition

Psychological Thought Reform Syndrome a self imposed condition of disassociation from common emotions such as empathy or sympathy in the form of displaying an unemotional response or “cold heartless” in affected situations, typically as the result of oppressive acts by a perpetrator aimed at inferring and manipulation (usually over an extensive period of time), gaining full emotional, psychological and physical control rendering its victim powerless to maintain any self natural instincts or ability of rational thought processing or self determinism over his or her own decisions indifferent from the perpetrator’s own points of views thus rendering its victim powerless by forcing its victim into submission through means of depravation or denial of basic humans needs such as sleep, proper nourishments, medical care coupled with the enforcement of physical hard labor and various forms of isolation eventually leaving the victim dysfunctional in any other environment except for the one created by the perpetrator.

Those victims tend disconnect any emotions or reaction to any situations in a robotic or matter-of-fact like manner most likely self imposed, as the victim often find themselves to believe the only useful life in existence is the one portrayed by its perpetrator and therefore deny or suppress prior thought processing or experiences or self existence as invalid, false or untrue.


Did I hit the "Nail on the Head" – NOTH (as moth but with an N)

Nut In The Nagen – NITN (nitten)

THAT is my word for what is happening...

Bz

Honey Love,

Bee Sting

 

[Markus]

Wow!!!

Hi Markus, Long time no see..

I read your thread yesterday (every response) and I got tears in my eyes.. there is so much to life to enjoy. How can we truly live our lives if we cannot feel the world around us? There is so much joy and yes, there is sorrow too. I believe, we all have a cross to bear. I think I bear mine... but those are things that I love in life and I love being a wog (good and bad.)

I can feel any emotion I want to! I can laugh! I can cry and I cherish everyone of those emotions. I embrace every person I meet with all my heart, even if they are considered low tone.

Actually, the low tones and my own ones too, makes me a better person because it teaches me to appreciate what I have and the things I've gone through.

"Emotions are wonderful things without them how do we love? Without love how do we care? Without care how do we live?" :confused2: I don't know!

I have a condition for you, it's a mouthful and it may require some time to really, really get it but I thought of it when reading your thread...

and listening to all those lovely songs... I love them! I truly love them and I so appreciate life after the Sea Org. Every day I live now is a pleasure! That is how bad the SO was for me.

Ok, so I may be considered an emotional wreck but I am not. I am as stable as anyone else but maybe my difference is that I accept life for what it is well, maybe....

So, here is my word/definition and answer to your question:


PTRS - Condition

Psychological Thought Reform Syndrome a self imposed condition of disassociation from common emotions such as empathy or sympathy in the form of displaying an unemotional response or “cold heartless” in affected situations, typically as the result of oppressive acts by a perpetrator aimed at inferring and manipulation (usually over an extensive period of time), gaining full emotional, psychological and physical control rendering its victim powerless to maintain any self natural instincts or ability of rational thought processing or self determinism over his or her own decisions indifferent from the perpetrator’s own points of views thus rendering its victim powerless by forcing its victim into submission through means of depravation or denial of basic humans needs such as sleep, proper nourishments, medical care coupled with the enforcement of physical hard labor and various forms of isolation eventually leaving the victim dysfunctional in any other environment except for the one created by the perpetrator.

Those victims tend disconnect any emotions or reaction to any situations in a robotic or matter-of-fact like manner most likely self imposed, as the victim often find themselves to believe the only useful life in existence is the one portrayed by its perpetrator and therefore deny or suppress prior thought processing or experiences or self existence as invalid, false or untrue.


Did I hit the "Nail on the Head" – NOTH (as moth but with an N)

Nut In The Nagen – NITN (nitten)

THAT is my word for what is happening...

Bz

Honey Love,

Bee Sting

What a perfect definition!

Much love and a to my sweet honey bee

Markus

 

[JinLing]

I would consider a lot of scientologists to be into life and music and art. Its just this non acceptance of being lowtoned. It is natural to get lowtoned once in a while, life isnt always that great. Id say a lot of people that i met in scientology had a strong spectrum of emoitions, but there is this thing about that certain emotions are "low" and certain are "high" emotions. Therefore sympathy is a bad emotion in scientology, for instance, so (someone was talking earlier in the thread that LRH never talked about that sympathy was bad, but yes he did.

He put it as a low emotion on the tonescale that is indicating it to be a bad emotion, and he talked about it in science of survival as something bad. I agree that sympathy in a noncaring greasy way isnt helping anyone, but to care and to have empathy is a form of sympathy that i think is very vital and important. I could sometimes feel as if some scientologists were just trained in understanding and didnt really think about it as anything else but case.

But hey, thats what youre trained to do as an auditor, it doesnt mean you think the person is unimportant or anything, you just learn to think its all just case, so it doesnt matter really what it is that the person is so upset about, cause the idea is that auditing will take it all away. And a low tone is case talking to you. So in that sense i can think that you can get less empathy as a scientologist. Cause its all human emotion and reaction, that will be handled sooner or later, you know, the way they look at it.

I think i gained some things also while being in scientology, when i do get very upset or life is very bad for some reason, i have a way of stepping out of it that i didnt have prior. Then things just happened and i was a mess in the middle of it, now i do look for solutions quite fast without sinking into it too much. But i can still get this horrible feeling of that its not really ok to feel too much or express it if its a low tone, and i can feel a bit shut off to other peoples upsets, and thats the bad part.

 

[Markus]

You are metioning some very good points here Jin Ling!

I would consider a lot of scientologists to be into life and music and art. Its just this non acceptance of being lowtoned. It is natural to get lowtoned once in a while, life isnt always that great. Id say a lot of people that i met in scientology had a strong spectrum of emoitions, but there is this thing about that certain emotions are "low" and certain are "high" emotions. Therefore sympathy is a bad emotion in scientology, for instance, so (someone was talking earlier in the thread that LRH never talked about that sympathy was bad, but yes he did.

He put it as a low emotion on the tonescale that is indicating it to be a bad emotion, and he talked about it in science of survival as something bad. I agree that sympathy in a noncaring greasy way isnt helping anyone, but to care and to have empathy is a form of sympathy that i think is very vital and important. I could sometimes feel as if some scientologists were just trained in understanding and didnt really think about it as anything else but case.

But hey, thats what youre trained to do as an auditor, it doesnt mean you think the person is unimportant or anything, you just learn to think its all just case, so it doesnt matter really what it is that the person is so upset about, cause the idea is that auditing will take it all away. And a low tone is case talking to you. So in that sense i can think that you can get less empathy as a scientologist. Cause its all human emotion and reaction, that will be handled sooner or later, you know, the way they look at it.

I think i gained some things also while being in scientology, when i do get very upset or life is very bad for some reason, i have a way of stepping out of it that i didnt have prior. Then things just happened and i was a mess in the middle of it, now i do look for solutions quite fast without sinking into it too much. But i can still get this horrible feeling of that its not really ok to feel too much or express it if its a low tone, and i can feel a bit shut off to other peoples upsets, and thats the bad part.

In fact while reading the book science of survival I started to question LRH.
Soon after reading it and after some abuses while being on staff I blew from my post and from this cult.

Markus

 

[Markus]

Scientology is heartless it is just unbelievable

From: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=75158&postcount=124

"About my Mom, My Mom was taking psychiatric medications for being a schizophrenic/manic/depressive/with psychotic tendencies. I think the label is "schizo affective" now. Yes, a couple of staff in HCO Gold and in RTC considered that my Mom was a suppressive for seeing a psychiatrist about her condition and taking psychiatric medications. She was also "downtone" and below 2.0 on the tone scale. I had those book pages from Science of Survival placed in front of my face numerous times by Ethics Officers, over the years, in relationship to my mother. The first person who got on my case about my Mom was Janadaire actually. I really liked Janadaire mostly, but she had a very negative view of my Mom. I had a negative view of my Mom sometimes too, but I didn't originally think she was doing anything to keep me down in my life. It was apparently to "help" me with my problems to get me to see how my "downtone psych-case Mom" was somehow responsible for my apparent "PTSness" --but it just seemed to make my problems worse, for me, to take that view. I don't know if it was a general belief that psychiatric patients were considered "Suppressive". I assumed it was, that the people doing Ethics Handlings and PTS Handlings on me had been trained in this regard. Has no one else heard of this? That taking psychiatric drugs is considered Suppressive?"

Love

Markus

 

[Zinjifar]

In fact while reading the book science of survival I started to question LRH.
Soon after reading it and after some abuses while being on staff I blew from my post and from this cult.

Markus

'Science of Survival' *should* have been enough to open anybody's eyes to what Ron intended Scientology to become.

Zinj

 

[Markus]

Yes!!

'Science of Survival' *should* have been enough to open anybody's eyes to what Ron intended Scientology to become.

Zinj

Yes Zinj you are so right on this!!!


Love

Markus

 

[La La Lou Lou]

Interesting reading about your ethics handlings, to get you to dissconnect from your mum, and looking at the Way To a Penis handbook, insisting that your parents are the only ones youll ever have and you must cuddle them every day, (no thats not an exact quote!)

One policy for the wogs one for public, one for staff, one for the Sea Org and an even tougher one for Int. Variable policy. If youre a wog you must be connected to your parents right through to disconnect from anyone you know just in case theyre SP's. Brilliant!

 

[uniquemand]

'Science of Survival' *should* have been enough to open anybody's eyes to what Ron intended Scientology to become.

Zinj

In what way? There are a variety of statements made in the book. Many of them directly relate to "how to audit" someone. Others are respective to how to evaluate folks in terms of who you relate with and who you choose not to. There are some statements in the book with which I agree, and there are others that I don't. Certainly you can see his bias against psychiatry/psychology developing, here, as well as his intent to "disconnect" the Church from the public. I'm not at all sure that you can necessarily see his intent for what the Church will look like inside in this book, nor am I convinced that you can see what the Church will be like with regard to public policy here. A lot would depend on the way in which the "outside world" changed with respect to the "inside world". We've seen the way it went, but I would say it didn't go the way Hubbard intended, either inside or out.

Yes Zinj you are so right on this!!!


Love

Markus

In what respect?

 

[Markus]

please read this....

In what way? There are a variety of statements made in the book. Many of them directly relate to "how to audit" someone. Others are respective to how to evaluate folks in terms of who you relate with and who you choose not to. There are some statements in the book with which I agree, and there are others that I don't. Certainly you can see his bias against psychiatry/psychology developing, here, as well as his intent to "disconnect" the Church from the public. I'm not at all sure that you can necessarily see his intent for what the Church will look like inside in this book, nor am I convinced that you can see what the Church will be like with regard to public policy here. A lot would depend on the way in which the "outside world" changed with respect to the "inside world". We've seen the way it went, but I would say it didn't go the way Hubbard intended, either inside or out.







In what respect?

I will just post this quote from this book of Mr. Hubbard here to think about it:

"The sudden and abrupt deletion of all individuals occupying the lower bands of the tone scale from the social order would result in an almost instant rise in the cultural tone and would interrupt the dwindling spiral into which any society may have entered. It is not necessary to produce a world of clears in order to have a reasonable and worthwhile social order; it is only necessary to delete those individuals who range from 2.0 down, either by processing them enough to get their tone level above the 2.0 line — a task which, indeed, is not very great, since the amount of processing in many cases might be under fifty hours, although it might also in others be in excess of two hundred — or simply quarantining them from the society. A Venezuelan dictator [Juan Vicente Gómez] once decided to stop leprosy. He saw that most lepers in his country were also beggars. By the simple expedient of collecting and destroying all the beggars in Venezuela an end was put to leprosy in that country. [6]"

"to delete those individuals who range from 2.0 down....." "....or simply quarantining them from the society" like they did with my brother and still do everey day with many hundred others in the RPF every day.
So who is authorized to decide who is ranging from 2.0 down? A permanent liar like Hubbard or David Miscavige?
So this quote alone should be enough to start questioning the whole organization.

And in relation with the death of my brother in the Sea Org this is very important for me:

"The booklet presents case histories and X-Rays and says that it proves that Dianetics can cure "aberrations" including manic depression, asthma, arthritis, colitis and "overt homosexuality." The booklet further says that it used twelve different tests and presents results from five, four of which came from the California Test Bureau and had according to an 1946 investigation of V. E. Ordahl of the University of California no evidence of reliability or validity."
From Wikipedia about this book. Here you have one of this clear and criminal medical claims of Mr. Hubbard.....


Love

Markus

 

[Markus]

Earth is no prison planet....

...- it is a planet full of wonderful art marvellous beings and beautiful emotions. Hubbard was a cold and heartless man who feared real emotions because he was not able to have and to show them. He was a covard who was not able to confront real life - so he built up his own world without love and compassion.
This is just my opinion - what do you think about it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObxzdawhM-8



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dl3F3TjNf-A&feature=related

Love

Markus

 

[Markus]

Scientology is creating......

very cold and heartless people!!

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=13989

Love

Markus

 

[Markus]

Very very cold an completely heartless people!!

As you can read here:

http://www.spaink.net/cos/mpoulter/sods/rosenblu.html




Markus