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The IAS and the Saber of Light.

While it's old knowledge that Janet Light was declared an SP by DM and assigned to the hole at Int. Old news also that the IAS Administrations was relocated to LA, with a corporate shake up. What is not known is why.

Janet Light had been the top dog in the IAS for a long time. It was a good job too. She had a six figure income and an unlimited expense account. While other Sea Org members were stuck on the base or the ship she could pretty much go where she wanted. Top plays in London or shopping at Neiman Marcus, she traveled first class and slept 5 star wherever she went. She ran a non profit organisation on the scale of Bill and Melinda Gates foundation.

Maybe I should have snagged her when I had the chance, the only other SO member on that sort of money was DM and Lou had him sown up, if you're marrying for money being gender non specific doubles your chances you know, and pickings are slim in the SO. I also thought she was hot, until I saw her one morning after one of her benders.

She answered to only one person, and while the money rolled in that wasn’t gonna change.

Couple of problems. They had accumulated about a billion in cash and were using the good works of others to get more. Even with all this, IAS income was dropping. New public into Scientology has crashed for decades, the available cash in the field also had to be split between many entities, Super Power, Planetary Dissem, Translation Unit, GAK, and The Ideal Org Pgm. Extensive reg tactics had financially broken the majority of dedicated public. Pressure from DM for more money was horrendous, IAS reges started whole sale crush tactics including locking people, audiences and passengers in rooms. Janet could see disaster on the horizon.

Though cash reserves were still growing, millions in expenses paid from the IAS did little real good for people or the world. She was painfully aware of the massive scale of misappropriation by David Miscavige of the IAS war chest. No expense spared parties for Tom Cruise, expensive birthday gifts, million dollar events, gratuitous jewel encrusted trinkets, over the top trophies and statuses for contributors.

Let's not even mention the bizarre way the Cof$ actually used the money under DMs purveiw, such as the Wollershiem case which they spent tens of millions defending and eventually settled for 8.3 mill. The joke of that is Larry's original claim was for around $300 grand.

Back to our heroine, she decided she was going to save the IAS from the Terror Midget (tm) by leaving the SO and taking the whole IAS with her causing a split. A billion dollars intelligently invested meant that she could earn at least 2 million a week in interest money to really help people, deep 6 all the expensive reges making 10% of each of our donations, wasn’t that what the IAS was about? Administrator for $100,000,000 a year budgeted income on a billion dollar trust with no need for reges is a bonza job! The ship was on international waters and the IAS was registered in a way to prevent it falling under the law of any unfavourable Governments, thus she would be outside the jurisdiction of the US courts. International law favored her plan.

She pulled together a small tight group of co-conspirators to make the move. They promptly KRed her arse to curry favour with DM.

Janet can be found in SP hall reflecting on her SPness. The real reason that she's there with the rest of the inmates is because each one of them knows enough to destroy DM by his own reckoning. I guess they're lucky to be alive given that.

Dave, you didn't think this was going to get out did you? The rest is coming, just give us the time to write it up!

Cop ya later!
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
The rest is coming, just give us the time to write it up!

Video it and put it on YouTube. It's must quicker to talk than type, at least for most people. Personally I prefer to read it but if you've got LOTS OF DIRT like this, speed might be of the essence. :D

EDIT: Whoops sorry, you're anon. I forgot. Well, if you change your mind about that. . . .

Paul
 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
Do we know that?

Anyway, I find an internal IAS mutiny a little hard to swallow. Except as a very naive move.

Zinj

Janet was a lot of things, 'naive' does not fit her.

And, of late, it had gotten a lot more difficult to get a refund ( yes refund not repayment ) from the IAS.

For awhile it could be done and now it is still done but spotty. Try it while they still exist - and have LOTS and LOTS of $$$$$$ !
 

Mike Laws

Patron Meritorious
Do we know that?

Anyway, I find an internal IAS mutiny a little hard to swallow. Except as a very naive move.

Zinj

Zinj,

I agree with you that it would be a niave move, and Janet was anything but naive, but again, if you stick a woman in a navy uniform, give her a ship, unlimited expense account at needless markup, who knows what will happen to her mind ... might make her feel rather invincible.

As a side note, and I will probably be flamed for this, I had a LOT of access to raw data, and have a lot of contact with high level people. The church has never intentionally killed anyone to my knowledge. Yes, as has been well documented, people were driven to suicide, people have hurt each other, maybe (unconfirmed) osa has had a few people beat up, lots of illegal surveylance, torturous interference with business, false police reports, entrapment, extortion, harassment, slander and libel, but even as a critic, I am quite sure they are not and have not been in the killing business.
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
Zinj,

I agree with you that it would be a niave move, and Janet was anything but naive, but again, if you stick a woman in a navy uniform, give her a ship, unlimited expense account at needless markup, who knows what will happen to her mind ... might make her feel rather invincible.

As a side note, and I will probably be flamed for this, I had a LOT of access to raw data, and have a lot of contact with high level people. The church has never intentionally killed anyone to my knowledge. Yes, as has been well documented, people were driven to suicide, people have hurt each other, maybe (unconfirmed) osa has had a few people beat up, lots of illegal surveylance, torturous interference with business, false police reports, entrapment, extortion, harassment, slander and libel, but even as a critic, I am quite sure they are not and have not been in the killing business.

What do you know about Flo Barnett?

http://www.skeptictank.org/barnett.htm
 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
Michael Flynn the lawyer had an engine failure in his Mooney that required an emergency landing.

He, as most pilots do, did a thorough pre-flight check which includes checking for water in the fuel.

What brought his plane down? Water in fuel.

What was suspected ? A balloon with water in it inserted in a fuel tank.

Proven? No.

Just happened mid when he was hot in ligitation with he C o $ - and he was pleased his family wasn't flying with him that day.

He was OK. Plane wasn't. When a pilot has an engine out is critical - some are recoverable and some are nowhere to go.

;;;;;

The girl, Susan Meister, on the Apollo who shot herself in the head. folded her arms neatly on her chest with the pistol neatly on her chest - and no powder burns on her head. Remarkable?

:::::::

And that " relative of DM who shot themselves, suicide, what THREE times?

::::

Nothing fishy about any of those, eh.
 
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Mike Laws

Patron Meritorious
What do you know about Flo Barnett?

http://www.skeptictank.org/barnett.htm

Alanzo,

Not a lot. Never saw anything on that while I was up, but have read about it since coming out. She was the mother of DMs wife, Shelly.

If their was foul play there, which I don't know there is, and am not convinced there was, but if it was done, it would have and could have occured through ASI, a for profit business at the time, with relatively unlimited resources from hubbards money and royalties. ASI affairs were kept secret from RTC in the 80s.
 

MostlyLurker

Patron Meritorious
[...] I had a LOT of access to raw data, and have a lot of contact with high level people. The church has never intentionally killed anyone to my knowledge. Yes, as has been well documented, people were driven to suicide, people have hurt each other, maybe (unconfirmed) osa has had a few people beat up, lots of illegal surveylance, torturous interference with business, false police reports, entrapment, extortion, harassment, slander and libel, but even as a critic, I am quite sure they are not and have not been in the killing business.

Mike, this is an encouragement to write what you know, even if it has been told by others already, even if it doesn't seem important. You may give a big contribution to the "Multiple Viewpoint System" of ESMB. :thumbsup:
 

Mike Laws

Patron Meritorious
Michael Flynn the lawyer had an engine failure in his Mooney that required an emergency landing.

He, as most pilots do, did a thorough pre-flight check which includes checking for water in the fuel.

What brought his plane down? Water in fuel.

What was suspectec? A balloon with water in it inserted in a fuel tank.

Proven? No.

Just happened mid when he waqs hot in ligitation witht he C o $ - and it was pleased his family wasn't flying with him that day.

He was OK. Plane wasn't. When a pilot has an engine out is critical - some are recoverable and some are nowhere to go.

;;;;;

The girl, Susan Meister, on the Apollo who shot herself in the head. folded her arms neatly on her chest witht he pistol neatly on her cheat - and no powder burns on her head. Remarkable?

:::::::

And that " relative of DM who shot themselves, suicide, what THREE times?

::::

Nothing fushy about any of those, eh.

Toad,

Fishy, absolutely. I don't doubt the church could have been involved in that on flynn, they were involved in plenty other.

Meister, not familiar, but if to guess might say that someone else either scorned lover or psycho staff member did it, then other staff, tried to make it look like a suicide and cover it up. That is more their style from my experience, they can not take blame or correct themselves.

Flo Barnett, see earlier post.

But was their any high level program for coordinated killings, I don't believe so. Have they pushed people to suicide, almost certainly, though this is difficult to prove intent.

You also have to realize how the "black ops" stuff was done, the real black stuff. Today it was done through attorneys hiring someone who hired someone who .... very difficult to prove and no records. In the past it was done through someone who had a friend who knew someone ...
 

Feral

Rogue male
What about the CAN story Mike?

http://www.holysmoke.org/cos/kisser-moxon-can-murder.htm

Alanzo,

Not a lot. Never saw anything on that while I was up, but have read about it since coming out. She was the mother of DMs wife, Shelly.

If their was foul play there, which I don't know there is, and am not convinced there was, but if it was done, it would have and could have occured through ASI, a for profit business at the time, with relatively unlimited resources from hubbards money and royalties. ASI affairs were kept secret from RTC in the 80s.
 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
Re Flo Barnett :
"David Miscavige's mother-in-law, Mary Florence "Flo" Barnett, died from four rifle shots, three to the chest and one to the head. Originally classified as a "suicide," upon closer inspection it was determined from the ballistics and the height of Ms. Barnett that wounds could not have been self-inflicted. Evidence was collected that just one week prior to her death, Ms. Barnett had threatened to sue the Church, and was in contact with David Mayo, a former member who was an avowed enemy of David Miscavige.

Furthermore, one of David Miscavige's sisters had committed suicide after completing OT VII. Another sister left the church and became a prostitute after starting the OT levels. David Miscavige's own father was once arrested for rape."
"

Nah, that ain't in the business of killing people but one hell of a lot of people dies under real questionable circumstances...including none other than L Ron Hubbard.

Did he kill himself ( as is claimed in that he "causatively " dropped his body to go do research ) or was he offed because he was in the way of the young turks?

Face it, the old man could not be seen in public - for a number of reasons, right?
 

Mike Laws

Patron Meritorious

Shit dude, flash back to a mentality I have long since blocked out and was glad I had blocked out.

I don't know about this, hadn't read it before. But I recognize the attitude. I remember having conversations with people like "would you die to help protect scientology?" "yeah of course I would, would you?"

A lot of GO files were destroyed and/or siezed. I don't know that this happened, but it well could have. Was this an official program or an attempt on behalf of a small faction to protect the church, I don't know. Doubt the former.

I had blanked out interactions with those types of fanatical people.

With my niave and childish desire to become a spy, I remember Jesse Prince pulling me aside and kindly telling me that I don't want to go there, trust him, I don't want to go there. Need to thank him for that.

Guess I am not going to answer any more questions here in an authoritarian manner.
 

Mike Laws

Patron Meritorious
Re Flo Barnett :
"David Miscavige's mother-in-law, Mary Florence "Flo" Barnett, died from four rifle shots, three to the chest and one to the head. Originally classified as a "suicide," upon closer inspection it was determined from the ballistics and the height of Ms. Barnett that wounds could not have been self-inflicted. Evidence was collected that just one week prior to her death, Ms. Barnett had threatened to sue the Church, and was in contact with David Mayo, a former member who was an avowed enemy of David Miscavige.

Furthermore, one of David Miscavige's sisters had committed suicide after completing OT VII. Another sister left the church and became a prostitute after starting the OT levels. David Miscavige's own father was once arrested for rape."
"

Nah, that ain't in the business of killing people but one hell of a lot of people dies under real questionable circumstances...including none other than L Ron Hubbard.

Did he kill himself ( as is claimed in that he "causatively " dropped his body to go do research ) or was he offed because he was in the way of the young turks?

Face it, the old man could not be seen in public - for a number of reasons, right?


Am commenting only on hubbard, fairly common knowledge he was in failing health, perhaps loosing his mental capacities and died in pretty poor form. I can't tell you if he was helped along by the young turks, I don't believe so, but can't authoritatevely take either side.
 

Feral

Rogue male
Shit dude, flash back to a mentality I have long since blocked out and was glad I had blocked out.

<SNIP>

Guess I am not going to answer any more questions here in an authoritarian manner
.

I didn't find your answer too authoritarian!

Pardon my manners, grilling the newbie like that I should let you get to know us for a bit but I got carried away with myself. :)

Is "Where are the bodies hidden?" socially acceptable anywhere?

I've always wanted to see informed commentary on this particular issue. It has the ring of truth to me.
 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
I think it is a matter of time before somebody iimplicates with positive proof that the "church" ordered the murder of some people and covered it up.

In the middle of the night who sweats because there is no statue of limitations on murder?

It'll come.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
First, GO was long gone by the time the assault on CAN began. It was OSA all the way (and their masters)

Second, I tend to *assume* that Scientology has murdered people. Why? Because we know of murder plots; we know of a mentality that allows murder plots. We know of the resources and willing or hireling dupes to commit murder.

For 'threat analysis', Scientology had the means, the opportunity and the willingness to murder; only limited by fear of discovery, which at various times has been remarkably low.

Do I think that the 'organization' murdered people? Yes, although, I suspect that most victims were themselves Scientologists, discarded because it seemed easier and more prudent than allowing them to live and possibly speak.

Do I have evidence? Of course not. We do know that the 'Church' has ordered deaths; the missing bodies are evidence of nothing but possibly testimony to the ability to eliminate evidence; a field where the 'Church' of Scientology excels.

But, has the 'Church' kidnapped people? Extorted people? Harassed, intimidated and 'ruined' people?

You betcha. All crimes that put Davey's slapping around of a few Scientology execs into the bagatelle category. Bad as that is.

How about tax fraud? How about money laundering? Public corruption, bribery, witness tampering, suborning perjury, obstruction of justice?

All crimes that the 'Church' *certainly* has committed; not as individual actions by 'rogue agents' but as organizational policy.

Zinj
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
I think it is a matter of time before somebody iimplicates with positive proof that the "church" ordered the murder of some people and covered it up.

In the middle of the night who sweats because there is no statue of limitations on murder?

It'll come.

Agreed. And, that's the point. Scientology is in a race to 'reform and reinvent' itself *before* the pink legs show up.

Hense Marty.

Zinj
 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
First, GO was long gone by the time the assault on CAN began. It was OSA all the way (and their masters)

Second, I tend to *assume* that Scientology has murdered people. Why? Because we know of murder plots; we know of a mentality that allows murder plots. We know of the resources and willing or hireling dupes to commit murder.

For 'threat analysis', Scientology had the means, the opportunity and the willingness to murder; only limited by fear of discovery, which at various times has been remarkably low.

Do I think that the 'organization' murdered people? Yes, although, I suspect that most victims were themselves Scientologists, discarded because it seemed easier and more prudent than allowing them to live and possibly speak.

Do I have evidence? Of course not. We do know that the 'Church' has ordered deaths; the missing bodies are evidence of nothing but possibly testimony to the ability to eliminate evidence; a field where the 'Church' of Scientology excels.

But, has the 'Church' kidnapped people? Extorted people? Harassed, intimidated and 'ruined' people?
You betcha. All crimes that put Davey's slapping around of a few Scientology execs into the bagatelle category. Bad as that is.

How about tax fraud? How about money laundering? Public corruption, bribery, witness tampering, suborning perjury, obstruction of justice?

All crimes that the 'Church' *certainly* has committed; not as individual actions by 'rogue agents' but as organizational policy.
Zinj

Dear Lurkers, As you read this note we are talking about a church, The Church of Scientology.

There is proof there has been over a long period of time various criminal activities carried out by the church.

There comes a point where one MUST ask oneself WHY a church is doing this kind of stuff.

And being it is activity that occurs over and over again there is no rational way to say it is " rogue " activity and not standard operating policy.

It IS hard to face while standing inside the group, but, it has to be faced - or it will keep on happening to other good people.

Yes, good people. People who are willing to tell the truth. But, according to OSA the truth is entheta spread by SPs.

I know a lot of these so called SPs and so do you : they are good people.

No one is " in " for 20 - 25 - 30 years devoting their life and passing every sec check with flying colors then wakes up one morning an SP. If that were true it would be time to burn all scn as that scene would prove to anyone it don't work ! How could someone DO scn for that long a wake up an SP? Impossible.

Why is possible is someone wants to leave. Someone sees the feet of clay.
And someone is willing to speak about what they know. And that can NOT be allowed ( Is that even remotely sane ?)
 

Sindy

Crusader
Dear Lurkers, As you read this note we are talking about a church, The Church of Scientology.

There is proof there has been over a long period of time various criminal activities carried out by the church.

There comes a point where one MUST ask oneself WHY a church is doing this kind of stuff.

And being it is activity that occurs over and over again there is no rational way to say it is " rogue " activity and not standard operating policy.

It IS hard to face while standing inside the group, but, it has to be faced - or it will keep on happening to other good people.

Yes, good people. People who are willing to tell the truth. But, according to OSA the truth is entheta spread by SPs.

I know a lot of these so called SPs and so do you : they are good people.

No one is " in " for 20 - 25 - 30 years devoting their life and passing every sec check with flying colors then wakes up one morning an SP. If that were true it would be time to burn all scn as that scene would prove to anyone it don't work ! How could someone DO scn for that long a wake up an SP? Impossible.

Why is possible is someone wants to leave. Someone sees the feet of clay.
And someone is willing to speak about what they know. And that can NOT be allowed ( Is that even remotely sane ?)

Thank you for caring, Auditor's Toad. That was well said. :hug:
 
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