Worried about family member

[Smurf]

For the "emotional clearing" thing- it could just be me misremembering, or maybe she just called it that. I haven't heard it again, and I've since heard other terms (like reactive) popping into her vocabulary. The goal is to get clear, right, so maybe that's what i heard.

She's probably paraphrasing "going clear" which the cult claims frees you of all the negative emotions knotted up in your reactive mind.

http://www.auditing.org/13-clear.htm

 

[Purple Rain]

She's probably paraphrasing "going clear" which the cult claims frees you of all the negative emotions knotted up in your reactive mind.

http://www.auditing.org/13-clear.htm

Yes, and Hubbard claimed there were also "painful emotion engrams" which he called "secondaries". The incidents he went on and on about were moments of physical pain and unconsciousness, but he discussed emotionally painful incidents as well.

And I guess that's because grief and loss are the sorts of things more people feel are ruining their lives than the time they fell off their bicycle or were sick with meningitis.

 

[concerned family]

Alright, minor update. Trying to talk about this stuff with her, she quickly doesn't know how to explain it and gets frustrated. She says "you just need to come" to see for myself. Also she doesn't want to tell me too much because she wants me to go in with "an open mind." I agreed to go to an orientation, and then it got cancelled, so we'll see if they reschedule. She also said "it's not scientology" and got defensive. Is that a good sign?

Also, another book appeared in the house- Self Analysis, by LRH.

For blogging dianetics- I thought that sounded cool but apparently it's more time and effort than I can spare right now, sorry.

 

[Purple Rain]

Alright, minor update. Trying to talk about this stuff with her, she quickly doesn't know how to explain it and gets frustrated. She says "you just need to come" to see for myself. Also she doesn't want to tell me too much because she wants me to go in with "an open mind." I agreed to go to an orientation, and then it got cancelled, so we'll see if they reschedule. She also said "it's not scientology" and got defensive. Is that a good sign?

Also, another book appeared in the house- Self Analysis, by LRH.

For blogging dianetics- I thought that sounded cool but apparently it's more time and effort than I can spare right now, sorry.

I think the defensiveness is a very bad sign, personally.

Ask her, if it's not "Scientology", then which organisation runs it? If she says "The Dianetics Centre" then ask where they are incorporated and who their principals are. She is already believing a lie, if she believes it's not Scientology. Ask her, "Are Scientologists expected to go Clear?" If so, what service do they have to take to get Clear? Oh, that would be New Era Dianetics....

It is complete and utter sophistry, and she's eating it with a spoon.

I wish I had read something like the "Blogging Dianetics" series along with the book. It is just the most excellent analysis of Hubbard's claims, both from a former believer and a hard-nosed skeptic journalist.

I just read the whole Dianetics book with no critical thinking whatsoever - much like the person you're concerned about. Just believed it because Hubbard stated it, despite the fact that he had no qualifications, no background, no published research of his own and no references to the research of others.

He wrote the entire thing in three weeks from start to finish, and the first ever "Clear" was a deliberately perpetrated hoax which left his reputation in tatters.

Also most Scientologists have not even read the books they buy, even though they keep buying more. There is a really good chance that this lady has not even read the whole book also, and is just believing the sales pitches and infomercials.

Anyway, by all means go in for the orientation. I'd be interested to see what you think of the movie, the personality test which doesn't actually test personality (and which will be bad by the way) and their inevitable sales pitch.

 

[Enthetan]

Alright, minor update. Trying to talk about this stuff with her, she quickly doesn't know how to explain it and gets frustrated. She says "you just need to come" to see for myself. Also she doesn't want to tell me too much because she wants me to go in with "an open mind." I agreed to go to an orientation, and then it got cancelled, so we'll see if they reschedule. She also said "it's not scientology" and got defensive. Is that a good sign?

Also, another book appeared in the house- Self Analysis, by LRH.

For blogging dianetics- I thought that sounded cool but apparently it's more time and effort than I can spare right now, sorry.

If it involves L Ron Hubbard, then it's Scientology, regardless of the name it goes under. It might be DM's brand of Scientology. It might be "FreeZone" or other flavor of "Independent" Scientology, but rest assured it IS Scientology.

 

[Purple Rain]

One other thing - if they do the pinch test on you it can look convincing. So when they ask you to think of a painful or upsetting thought, think instead of the most pleasant thing you can imagine and see what happens. And definitely read up about how the e-meter works and how people have worked out, even within Scientology, that they can trick it.

 

[Purple Rain]

You might also find this piece from the Underground Bunker really helpful:

http://tonyortega.org/2014/10/04/jo...o-a-scientologist-to-plant-the-seed-of-doubt/

 

[Intentionally Blank]

Alright, minor update. Trying to talk about this stuff with her, she quickly doesn't know how to explain it and gets frustrated. She says "you just need to come" to see for myself. Also she doesn't want to tell me too much because she wants me to go in with "an open mind." I agreed to go to an orientation, and then it got cancelled, so we'll see if they reschedule. She also said "it's not scientology" and got defensive. Is that a good sign?

Also, another book appeared in the house- Self Analysis, by LRH.

For blogging dianetics- I thought that sounded cool but apparently it's more time and effort than I can spare right now, sorry.

I read SA in one 3 hour sitting. And then made the mistake of saying it was a shallow bit of self help It's not a strategy I would suggest. A good friend of mine has a stock statement for things he finds not quite up to par, "That was interesting!" said with innocence and gusto.

I think the defensiveness is a very bad sign, personally.

Ask her, if it's not "Scientology", then which organisation runs it? If she says "The Dianetics Centre" then ask where they are incorporated and who their principals are. She is already believing a lie, if she believes it's not Scientology. Ask her, "Are Scientologists expected to go Clear?" If so, what service do they have to take to get Clear? Oh, that would be New Era Dianetics....

It is complete and utter sophistry, and she's eating it with a spoon.

I wish I had read something like the "Blogging Dianetics" series along with the book. It is just the most excellent analysis of Hubbard's claims, both from a former believer and a hard-nosed skeptic journalist.

I just read the whole Dianetics book with no critical thinking whatsoever - much like the person you're concerned about. Just believed it because Hubbard stated it, despite the fact that he had no qualifications, no background, no published research of his own and no references to the research of others.

He wrote the entire thing in three weeks from start to finish, and the first ever "Clear" was a deliberately perpetrated hoax which left his reputation in tatters.

Also most Scientologists have not even read the books they buy, even though they keep buying more. There is a really good chance that this lady has not even read the whole book also, and is just believing the sales pitches and infomercials.

Anyway, by all means go in for the orientation. I'd be interested to see what you think of the movie, the personality test which doesn't actually test personality (and which will be bad by the way) and their inevitable sales pitch.

Yeah, the defensiveness is not a good sign. I like Purple's questions. Remember to cultivate an attitude and a tone of curiosity rather than confrontation. You'll want to avoid defensiveness on her part as much as possible. The more she feels you are on her side and supporting her the more leverage you have to create doubt.

Best,

Blanky

 

[concerned family]

Alright, another non-update update. I've heard or seen nothing about this stuff for a while now. Hopefully that doesn't mean I already established myself as "closed minded" or whatever

 

[Intentionally Blank]

Alright, another non-update update. I've heard or seen nothing about this stuff for a while now. Hopefully that doesn't mean I already established myself as "closed minded" or whatever

How are your other interactions? Still friendly? Hanging out? Doing stuff?

Nice to see you, btw

 

[concerned family]

How are your other interactions? Still friendly? Hanging out? Doing stuff?

Nice to see you, btw

Things are good, thanks for asking.

Hopefully this is my last update. It seems she's let the dianetics thing slip away, so hooray. The books are still on the stack, but I think are just gathering dust. I slipped in a question about her sessions, and she mumbled about needing to go back to that at some point. But I think real life has won out.

So, thank you all for your support and helpful advice. Happy holidays!

 

[Reasonable]

Hi. I found your board looking for advice. A loved one has started going to "emotional clearing" sessions, and I recently noticed a copy of Dianetics in the house. I think I know where this leads, and I don't like it. I've read a bit about these subjects online, including a few personal accounts. Also, the links in the sticky in this forum are good, will spend more time with them. However, most of the resources seem to be for those who have gotten deeper or been in longer. Also, I don't see much about what family can do.

So, my question is- are there resources out there on how to help someone get out, before they get too deep?

Thanks!

I wouldn't attack the results because if he feels better then he feels better.

I would let him read about the disconnection and the human rights violations.

Also i might introduce Xenu and the upper level secret stuff so he reads it before he knows that he is not supposed to read it.

This might let him see how ridiculous it will get.

 

[AnonyMary]

Things are good, thanks for asking.

Hopefully this is my last update. It seems she's let the dianetics thing slip away, so hooray. The books are still on the stack, but I think are just gathering dust. I slipped in a question about her sessions, and she mumbled about needing to go back to that at some point. But I think real life has won out.

So, thank you all for your support and helpful advice. Happy holidays!

Good for you both!!