New guy on the block - 'cept I'm a girl

[ChurchOfCylontology]

Thanks! And great advice! I've been thinking about it, to see if I can scrape up something, and I realised that's exactly why I didn't leave earlier! There was nothing that I witnessed that I could point to as a crime. Just a lot of "doesn't make sense" stuff, that there was always some kinda BS answer for, if you asked. However, when I get my story down I will review my experience with a critical eye, and if I find anything I disagree.... hold on a sec! Something just came to my mind. As far as I know, in my country (South Africa), there are certain rules that have to be followed in terms of types of organisations. For example, I don't think you are allowed to raise funds without a fundraising number, which has to appear on your stationery. Then there's the minimum wage thing....

I guess I'm gonna have to do some homework, find out what the rules are, and report anything that's not okay. Isn't that, after all, what Ron says to do?

I'm glad that you are thinking about it all, and please...as many have stated here....please go at your own pace with your healing. It is a journey that will give you amazing perspective and wisdom.

One example that may illustrate some of the illegal activity that sometimes isn't thought of until later, after people leave - Those in the Sea Org that travel to foreign countries to work in foreign orgs have their passports kept under lock and key while in their host country and not able to move about or return home due to lack of access to their passport.

Keeping your passport from you is illegal and a sign of human trafficking. Upper mgmt in the SO justify it with many lies, but it is highly illegal in most countries including the US. If this happened to you (especially in the US) it may be worthwhile reaching out to the US Consulate or Embassy in your area to report that it happened to you (with dates, details, etc).

So it may be little things that were 'explained away' to you but just didn't seem RIGHT. If possible, and if it isn't too painful, try to recall when you felt that inner doubt and what events triggered those doubtful feelings. If you suspect it may be a crime, then outreach some of the fantastic and trustworthy exes on this board for advice. Emma, Tikk, Magoo, etc, are very good at being sounding boards and helpful. Tory (Magoo) even puts her personal phone number on the Internet for anyone that wants help or has questions.

I adore your courage and I'm glad you're taking the bull by the horns by demystifying your identity.

 

[mich]

You are most welcome !

To my way of thinking when someone is interested in and cares about the person they are listening to that most certainly is wonderful and capable of producing great results.

And that kind of a person ( in scn an auditor ) does exist and can be found not only in one particular group but many...maybe a somewhat 'rare' person but they do exist !
Some people are natural very good listeners.

I've had quiet conversations with people who have studied non violent communication and had it be life changing or listened to Esther Hicks channel ( did I say that ? ) Abraham and felt as if there were a God or Universal Consciousness then that was who was talking. Or, sometimes, sitting with a loved one sharing thoughts and feelings.
Meditationing? Oh goodness yes ! 15 minute a day routine for me !
No group has cornered the market on effective communications.

Might want to look into the I Ching, too. WOW !

There are many paths ( and many cons ). Trust yourself, pick what is right for you.

Oh, Mich, may I send you a private message ?

Absolutely! I added you as friend to make it easier... look forward to hearing more...

 

[mich]

Mich,

I feel obliged to offer a small piece of unsolicited general advice which I, myself, found very useful; it's to do with frying pans and fires. Allow yourself time to decompress fully.

"Hurry Up and Survive!" is an impulse born of scientology indoctrination, there is no rush really and you're already walking your Path. Enjoy the journey.

Best Wishes, Panda

You are so right! I still have that "driven" feeling... but then again since I was about nine I felt like I had something that needed to be done, and there was no time to waste. I am being smart about it - I look (a lot and everywhere), but I'll make no decisions until I'm sure I'm ready, and I don't anticipate that will be anytime soon. But it doesn't hurt to be reminded to look before you leap - thanks!

 

[Disinfected]

Miscavige worship at Flag

Hi Mich and Welcome

I will relate a little story about Miscavige worship at Flag.

Not so long ago, I was in the CW area on a little vacation and wanted to see the base following the latest remodels. I decided to treat a friend and his wife to lunch at the Hibiscus (upscale restaurant in the FH, for those that do not know).

We had a nice meal. And for public, Flag really is a very friendly place. The service was excellent and the Hibiscus manager came out and we had quite a nice long conversation that ended with a tour of the kitchen.

Anyway, the manager was telling us that DM had dinner there one day and ordered ribeye. After he was done, he told the manager that it was "the second best" ribeye steak he had ever had. Second best (Oh you, DM). The manager then says to us with reverence something like "And when Mr. Miscavige says something like that to you, you do NOT ignore it." With reverence.

So what do they do about only having the second best ribeye in DM's view? Well, they discover that he thinks the best ribeye is at some very high-end steakhouse in Manhattan. They discover what kind of equipment that steakhouse is using to cook their steaks, some kind of expensive special grill, and they buy that and install it in the Hibiscus. Then they bring the head chef at that restaurant down for, I think, a week, at who know how much money, to show them how to use it and how to cook that ribeye.

Is any of this "wrong"? No, if their purpose was to be the best steakhouse in Florida. But it was not. Their purpose was to spare no expense to satisfy a random whim of David Miscavige.

And that is fucked.

disinfected

 

[lkwdblds]

The "correct tech" depends on what you are trying to achieve. For example, you wouldn't use plumbing tech to repair your electrical wiring problems.

If you really want to find what Toady (and some others) is talking about, first you have to realize and admit that you are not God. You might be amazed to discover how much relief you can achieve from that alone.

That process can be very fast -- it can happen in a moment. And it costs nothing -- in fact, that little bit of "tech" is being given to you right now, by me, for free!

As long as you are trying to be God, well, good luck with that and with finding a "tech" that will get you there.

Olska, I have always considered your posts well thought out and very intelligent. However, this one which I am responding to is way, way off the mark. It is really a bad post, based on two false premises, i.e. that I think I am God and that I desparately need relief from something. Both premises are way off the mark!

I admit I am not God! I've never held such a ridiculous notion. I am just a regular human being and have led a regular life here on Earth. I don't know where you picked up your false notions about me but you are waaaay off the mark!!! I would like to know what it is that I said which caused you to come up with those notions.

Your remark on correct tech also makes no sense. Toady was claiming that there are techs thousands of time faster than Scientology tech and much, much cheaper. Therefore it was apparent that he was talking about techs that were shooting for goals similar to what Scientology is shooting for. He couldn't mean that there was a plumber who could plumb better than Hubbard -give me a break!

My logical request of him was to tell me, and the entire thread, what these techs are so that we could all take advantage of them. I did not think that he would be able to come up with any such techs and true to expectations, he did not do so. Had he mentioned some specific tech or techs, of course I would have looked into them - there is no doubt about that. If such techs existed, I would definately be interested in finding out more.
Lakey

 

[uniquemand]

What goals does Scientology have that you would be interested in achieving through the use of a more effective, faster tech?

 

[Claire Swazey]

I think even thinking in terms of tech is something I'd like to get away from. For those who want to do that, great. Unlike some, I have no problem with anyone practicing Scn outside CofS any more than I would if it were Idenics, Knowledgism or TIR or some mainstream religion or mode of thought.

But for me, I don't want "faster tech". I want my connection to the divine.

 

[lkwdblds]

Been posted about on ESMB & has been, I believe, discussed with you by me.

Giving information is one thing while having someone willing to listen - and listening - is entirely another thing.

You made some claims and I asked for some specifics. I am very interested in what you were claiming and if you had the courtesy to provide me references, I would have followed up on them.

Just because something has been posted on ESMB is no valid excuse to not name it again or provide a link to it. Much of what is discussed daily on ESMB has been posted earlier on ESMB. That does not relieve you from the responsibility of backing up your claims.

You are wrong about having discussed this tech with me earlier. Had you discussed a tech thousands of times faster than Scientology that was tens of thousands of dollars cheaper, I would have remembered it. In fact, I would have gone to my computer the next day, Googled it and studied up on it.

I'll ask you again. Would you please mention the name of this super fast and inexpensive tech or post a link to it.

What's at stake is if you want to be taken seriously as a poster or if you just want to "blow smoke". If you don't back up your claims then your posts are not worth being read for serious reasons though they may still be fun to read for their humor.
Lakey

Lakey

 

[TG1]

Mich,

I've just caught up on this thread (from #41 onward).

What blows me away from your description of how things at Flag are "currently" and Disinfected's story of his/her recent trip to Flag and the "second best steak" anecdote is how incredibly strong David Miscavige's psychological hold is over the inhabitants still hanging on inside the Scientology bubble.

I really do find this extraordinary. The way you've described the image held of him by staff and apparently some public still there is one of a strong, revered, tough but ultimately beneficent leader.

I have a very different take on David Miscavige, given the stories I've read and heard directly from people who've worked under him. I believe completely their stories about his pettiness, brutality and political and strategic stupidity.

I also find it astonishing that despite his small physical stature he has been able to intimidate other people -- particularly men -- who are so much larger than he is. Not that I don't believe the stories, but just that it really does astonish me.

The takeaway for me is that David Miscavige must be a truly world-class asshole.

One other thing -- you mentioned you're in your early 40s and yet you only started surfing the 'net last fall. I hope that doesn't mean you're really surfing all of the net for the first time now. But if it does, is that because you were warned by the Church to stay offline completely?

Thanks very much for all your information about how things are "inside" these days. I love getting the current scoop, since I've been gone so long.

TG1

P.S. Panda's and Arthur Dent's advice is great. You might consider remaining in "confusion" for a really long time. Nothing bad wil happen, I promise. And there really is very much to be confused about. So don't "quickie" the condition.

 

[olska]

Somehow this lovely thread in which our new member Mich introduces herself got sidetracked into a discussion of "tech" and "techs" that has nothing to do with her arrival, or her experience, or what -- as I understand it -- she came here to learn and to share.

I'd like to apologize for my part in that derail -- I really only meant to nip in the bud a gross misconception about members of this board, not to get into a big thing about it. I'll ask, even plead with, those interested in that "tech" discussion to start a new thread for it, and if it matters to anyone (it doesn't matter much to me, frankly), to take that discussion from here to there and let this one get back on track with a ...

WELCOME Mich! to the world of ESMB, where I hope you will enjoy your stay and continue to share with us your journey -- past, present, and future.

 

[Auditor's Toad]

You made some claims and I asked for some specifics. I am very interested in what you were claiming and if you had the courtesy to provide me references, I would have followed up on them.

Just because something has been posted on ESMB is no valid excuse to not name it again or provide a link to it. Much of what is discussed daily on ESMB has been posted earlier on ESMB. That does not relieve you from the responsibility of backing up your claims.

You are wrong about having discussed this tech with me earlier. Had you discussed a tech thousands of times faster than Scientology that was tens of thousands of dollars cheaper, I would have remembered it. In fact, I would have gone to my computer the next day, Googled it and studied up on it.

I'll ask you again. Would you please mention the name of this super fast and inexpensive tech or post a link to it.

What's at stake is if you want to be taken seriously as a poster or if you just want to "blow smoke". If you don't back up your claims then your posts are not worth being read for serious reasons though they may still be fun to read for their humor.
Lakey

Lakey

Your posting that made for a somehwat humorous moment.

I understand you might you feel you get to determine whether or not I am taken seriously as a poster. You can feel that way. That, to me, is more that a little funny !
BTW, Do you really think I care at all whether or not you read - or believe - my posts ? I don't. I skip most of yours and figured you'd do the same for mine. :confused2:

I did not sign on to educate ( LOL ! ) you. Please refrain from that sort of intellectual laziness and kindly do your own reseach and / or searches here on ESMB as I have neither the time nor inclination to do either for you.

I do regard posting on ESMB as most serious thing in my life and certainly do not regard myself ( in terms you seem to like ) any sort of an OL around here.

You can make your 'demands' as if you have some ( shades of you know what -->)altitude, but, alas, with me you darn sure don't.

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Mich,

IMO, the most important thing you can do is to read all of the stuff out there on the Net and on this Board about El Ron, the Genus of the Red and Green “Tech” and just what Hisself was actually like, written by folks that actually knew El Ron or, Like Bent Corydon, were Red and Green "Tech" trained and did lengthy interviews with those folks. In my view, sorting things out begins with demystifying El Ron as “Source” and the “OT d’ OT’s”.

ESMB is not, IMO, “Factions”, “Groups”, “Types” or whatever else someone sees it as “Compartmentalized”, "Categorized" or “Explained” by…Gawd, didn't we all get enough of that in Scn? ESMB is just Folks that, like thee and me who, again IMO, are trying to figure out what happened, how do I make sense of “it”, what do I do now and who can I talk with that will “Grok” me, not judge me and or try to “Guru” me . Here on this Board are the words and stories of Folks from every era, continent, processing level, “Tech” training level and “Admin” training level…Up to and including Class XII’s trained by Hisself, OT 8’s and FEBC’s/DSEC’s, Ex Apollo Crew and Int 'Management"…And there are also the words and stories of Folks that knew El Ron and were the actual “source” of some of the “Breakthrough’s” El Ron bragged about Hisself having done.

Face

 

[Auditor's Toad]

Olska, I have always considered your posts well thought out and very intelligent. However, this one which I am responding to is way, way off the mark. It is really a bad post, based on two false premises, i.e. that I think I am God and that I desparately need relief from something. Both premises are way off the mark!

I admit I am not God! I've never held such a ridiculous notion. I am just a regular human being and have led a regular life here on Earth. I don't know where you picked up your false notions about me but you are waaaay off the mark!!! I would like to know what it is that I said which caused you to come up with those notions.

Your remark on correct tech also makes no sense. Toady was claiming that there are techs thousands of time faster than Scientology tech and much, much cheaper. Therefore it was apparent that he was talking about techs that were shooting for goals similar to what Scientology is shooting for. He couldn't mean that there was a plumber who could plumb better than Hubbard -give me a break!

My logical request of him was to tell me, and the entire thread, what these techs are so that we could all take advantage of them. I did not think that he would be able to come up with any such techs and true to expectations, he did not do so. Had he mentioned some specific tech or techs, of course I would have looked into them - there is no doubt about that. If such techs existed, I would definately be interested in finding out more.
Lakey

Olska, for what it's worth, I - for one - do NOT think you made " really a bad post " nor was it " way off the mark ".

People get to have, an express their opinions on a chat board. That some few have self appointed themselves to monitor and censor what other people are allowed to think - and post - is what really has no business here. Sort of reminds one of what a cult tries to do doesn't it ?

 

[Auditor's Toad]

<snip>
Just because something has been posted on ESMB is no valid excuse to not name it again or provide a link to it. Much of what is discussed daily on ESMB has been posted earlier on ESMB. That does not relieve you from the responsibility of backing up your claims.
<snip>.
Lakey
Lakey

Dear Lurkers,

Please note this boy makes the common mistake of mistaking a chat board for the witness box in a court room. On a chat board ( which this is ) one can post and not feel any particular obligation - and certaintly not responsibility - to another poster who climbs on their soapbox ( and assumes a quasi SO-like-altitude ) and tries to demand or browbeat " documents" / "links" / etc "whatever" suits 'em. ( Lord, Lord, especially when it has already been on ESMB and is easily found )

Some peoples demands merit a " Wet in one hand and demand with the other and see which one fills up " category.

I do respond to reasonable requests from reasonable people ; however, demands from an [ DELETED ] will remain unheeded.

[ Now watch him " Disconnect " from me - LOL ! ]

 

[Commander Birdsong]

Re: Miscavige worship at Flag

Hi Mich and Welcome

I will relate a little story about Miscavige worship at Flag.

Not so long ago, I was in the CW area on a little vacation and wanted to see the base following the latest remodels. I decided to treat a friend and his wife to lunch at the Hibiscus (upscale restaurant in the FH, for those that do not know).

We had a nice meal. And for public, Flag really is a very friendly place. The service was excellent and the Hibiscus manager came out and we had quite a nice long conversation that ended with a tour of the kitchen.

Anyway, the manager was telling us that DM had dinner there one day and ordered ribeye. After he was done, he told the manager that it was "the second best" ribeye steak he had ever had. Second best (Oh you, DM). The manager then says to us with reverence something like "And when Mr. Miscavige says something like that to you, you do NOT ignore it." With reverence.

So what do they do about only having the second best ribeye in DM's view? Well, they discover that he thinks the best ribeye is at some very high-end steakhouse in Manhattan. They discover what kind of equipment that steakhouse is using to cook their steaks, some kind of expensive special grill, and they buy that and install it in the Hibiscus. Then they bring the head chef at that restaurant down for, I think, a week, at who know how much money, to show them how to use it and how to cook that ribeye.

Is any of this "wrong"? No, if their purpose was to be the best steakhouse in Florida. But it was not. Their purpose was to spare no expense to satisfy a random whim of David Miscavige.

And that is fucked.

disinfected

naw...

man you're laying your own spin at the end,,,

if you are a rollin' wailin' sort of cat you make use of power when the opportunity is there. cat is running a restaurant and the honcho calls the ribeye second best it's a chance to get a new toy with a hipness

 

[Auditor's Toad]

What goals does scientology have that you would be interested in achieving through the use of a more effective, faster tech?

I always tended to think it was goals people had that they hoped to achieve through scientology rather than the way you stated it.

I could be wrong.

 

[Panda Termint]

lol, I thought that was kinda UM's point; ergo, "None!" would be the answer.

Voicing the question as reworded, might get an answer or two.

 

[Auditor's Toad]

lol, I thought that was kinda UM's point; ergo, "None!" would be the answer.

Voicing the question as reworded, might get an answer or two.

Yeah. Now I see what he is saying.

My wife says I can be very dense.

She is right

 

[Disinfected]

Re: Miscavige worship at Flag

naw...

man you're laying your own spin at the end,,,

if you are a rollin' wailin' sort of cat you make use of power when the opportunity is there. cat is running a restaurant and the honcho calls the ribeye second best it's a chance to get a new toy with a hipness

I guess that is one take

 

[Auditor's Toad]

Face made a wonderful post over on the Apollo thread to Lackey.

Worth an amble over to read. It'll most likely make most quotable quote of the year !
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